J Basser: 0:01

Episode Exposed Vet Productions and Weekly Show. My name is John Stacey, they call me Jay Basher. My co-host today is Mr Ray Cobb, out of the great state of Alabama, or Tennessee, the way you want to call it. He lives out on the Tennessee-Alabama line. He can step one way and be in Tennessee and fall back into Alabama. There you go, that's the way it works down here.

J Basser: 0:26

Yeah, trip over logs. Yeah, we got a trip for you today, guys. We got Mr John Doherty. He is accredited to be a paleo-vegan. He has a plethora of experience doing this. He started out working for, I guess, the county's veteran service office back when he first started doing this many, many moons ago, probably 30, 40 years ago. So you've been doing this for a long time. But today we're going to start off, we're going to get the state of the VA. And, john, what do you think today's state of the VA is? I guess we'll do it from the regional office side, from the claims side.

John Dorle: 0:59

Yeah, you know, as I was talking to you earlier, I think it's always a good idea to kind of at least from my perspective the state of the VA the good, the bad and the ugly. I think the bad and the ugly is pretty clear. That's always been the case ever since I started in 1992 is the delay, delay, delay, delay until the veterans quit. You know that seems to be the running mantra with the VA but yeah, it's continuing to be a delay process. But one thing I can report the Board of Veterans Appeals has gotten a lot better.

John Dorle: 1:45

One thing I can report the Board of Veterans Appeals has gotten a lot better as they whittled down. Their priority had always been the legacy appeals and for those people that remember the legacy appeals, that was the appeals process prior to the current Appeals Management Act. They've whittled down the legacy appeals process to the level that it's not nearly as bad anymore. So in the day, probably as recently as a year and a half ago, it was about 40 months, three and a half years for a decision to come from the board. But as of late, within the past three to four months, I've been seeing decisions coming back in eight to 12 months. So that's wonderful and the decisions are good. I'm getting some good decisions from the board. That's good, but of course what I mentioned earlier.

John Dorle: 2:45

The delays are are never good, but uh as as many of us are aware, uh, they will expedite your claims if they can show financial hardship or terminal illness or their their age is 85 years or if they're at the local VA and 75 or older, and if it's at the board.

John Dorle: 3:06

So that's kind of a nutshell of at least my take of what's going on with the VA. It continues to be a process and we just whittle down the claims and win as many as we can from this end of it. So yeah, any questions at all. So yeah, Any questions at all.

J Basser: 3:34

Can't hear you. We know there's three level appeals to the VA.

John Dorle: 3:37

There we go. I can hear you now. I'm sorry, I'm sorry you got the direct documents.

J Basser: 3:42

Just a few seconds.

John Dorle: 3:43

I didn't hear you, I'll ask a question, you got the direct docket, go ahead whichever.

J Basser: 3:52

I was going to say there's three levels of appeals. Each one had a different time frame and we'll get them done, because I think the quickest was used to be take a trip to DC and do the appeal and they had the direct docket review that I had and I think about what I think about what I think about 40 months from I get, if I remember correctly.

John Dorle: 4:09

Yeah, yeah, that's what I was referring to the direct docket review is about 40 months out and even longer for a personal hearing. Then there's the other option of a 90 day admin review to submit new evidence. You can just add 90 days to that. But yeah, direct review is about 40 months and, like I said, it's not that long anymore.

John Dorle: 4:32

I think that's as a result of they were able to eliminate the legacy appeals to a large degree so they can concentrate more on the AMA Appeals Management Act appeals, more on the AMA Appeals Management Act appeals. But yeah, 40 months probably a couple years ago was at about 40 months and it's gotten a lot better.

J Basser: 4:55

Alright, guys, remember, if you're in an appeal process and you're waiting for a direct docket review and you just got some good news there, it's going to be a little quicker than what I had to go through a couple years ago, because it was a discombobulated mess, in my opinion.

Ray Cobb: 5:12

John, do you think right now, what's going on? I got a call today from a veteran. Fortunately, one of my friends referred him to me. That's a doctor and the interesting part about it he had been told by the county service office to go ahead and file a claim for loss of use of hearing. He was around jet engines all the time in the Air Force back during the Vietnam era, around jet engines all the time in the Air Force back during the Vietnam era. Well, the problem with that when I talked to him, he has no diagnosis and I'm wondering why are these county service officers in Tennessee and probably around the entire country telling people to file a claim when they don't even have a diagnosis yet and the fact that it's not going to do anything except setting up delays and bogging down the system? Do you think that's what they're trying today?

John Dorle: 6:21

Well, I think what the county service officers are trying to do is. Well, I think what the county service officers are trying to do is at least in the day. I was a county service officer for about 20 years and I started doing this independent for about 15 years now, and one of the first questions I'd ask them is how their hearing is. I can usually tell by just talking to them. I'd know what the answer would be.

John Dorle: 6:50

But I need to get the veteran to admit that they have a hearing loss.

John Dorle: 6:53

A lot of times they'll have their spouse with them and the veteran might say, oh, my hearing is fine, and the wife in most cases will be looking side-eye at the veteran like, no, it's not. And and so, to answer your question, once I have determined that they have a hearing loss, I absolutely file a claim for even though they don't have a diagnosis, because most of the time veterans who are suffering from hearing loss, they don't have a formal diagnosis loss, they don't have a formal diagnosis. So if they don't have a formal diagnosis, that's not going to prevent me from filing the claim. And honestly, ray, that's part of the program with the VA is those compensation exams. They will get them in for an exam and they will diagnose them or not diagnose them. So don't feel like they're trying to bog the system down. I think what they're trying to do is the same thing I would have tried to do is get these guys service connected to hearing loss or even bringing in their um.

John Dorle: 7:59

I think it's important to follow the plane. Let them do the complication examinations and let the audiologist determine whether they have a diagnosis or not. Don't place the onus on the veteran to go get a diagnosis and then follow the claim. I think that would be the opposite of what I'd want to do Okay, but would that not negatively affect his date?

J Basser: 8:27

say, for example, if he didn't have a diagnosis but he goes to a cnp exam after stay, file the claim six months later you know just the generalized date I put in there that he goes for a cnp exam. The next thing you know he does have compensable hearing loss. Well, they will probably take advantage of the situation there and say okay, your effective date for the hearing loss is the date of your hearing test film at five.

John Dorle: 8:53

Well, we're assuming that that initial hearing exam was 100% accurate too, Mm-hmm. You know, I think that I get your point. I think the point is that we want to put the cart before the horse. Do we want to rush them in for an exam without a diagnosis? And then they go in, they don't have a diagnosis. And then you file a claim a year later and then they have a diagnosis. And then the VA comes back and says well, whoa, you know, you didn't have a diagnosis a year ago. Now you do.

John Dorle: 9:27

So, something happened within that year that caused the hearing losses. It wasn't the military. So yeah, I mean it is strategic. I like to strike while the iron's hot If the veteran feels like they have a hearing loss to me.

John Dorle: 9:45

99 times out of 100, they have a hearing loss. Now, if they're kind of up there, they don't know if they have a hearing loss. Sometimes they hear things, sometimes they don't. Yeah, then that would be a time maybe to go get a diagnosis first, because we don't want to fall into that trap of you. Know, you file a claim today, your decibel losses are low, and then five years later you file a claim and they're off the charts, and then it's harder to point the finger at the military. So I get your point. My theory is, like I said, strike while the iron's hot, the veteran and the wife, the spouse usually knows whether they have hearing loss.

John Dorle: 10:29

So I've never been one to delay myself. I don't know that I can ever remember a case where that kind of hit the benching in the hind end. And even if it did, you know we'd have to put you know. The VA would have to demonstrate that that audiology exam they had at that time? Wasn't that accurate as compared to the one they have a year later? So yeah. I think the risk reward ratio is more in favor of the veteran. Just get the claim in. Let them get in for the compensation exam, yeah.

J Basser: 11:08

Ray, I'm going to send you a BVA claim here Case tomorrow. Maybe the day after, when you get it, print it off and give it to the guy you said the guy was an MD right.

Ray Cobb: 11:20

MD, metal doctor, right? No, that's who we referred him to. The gentleman is 79, almost 80 years old.

Ray Cobb: 11:24

He's never filed a claim he's never, you know. He's to the point where he's thinking he could possibly use some medical assistance. Now the other question I have. I saw this happen once. I took a veteran down to the Alvin C York to put in for medical. And he goes in and he's good. The guy's going through all the numbers and everything, he said, well, you don't quite qualify, you make too much or your retirement's too much. And then the guy says something Well, when I was in Vietnam, he said wait a minute, you were in Vietnam. He said yeah. He said wait a minute, you were in Vietnam. He said yeah. He said well, then you automatically qualify for medical. Is that true? So if he served during the Vietnam era, then he automatically qualifies for medical right.

John Dorle: 12:19

Yeah, john, I think you'd agree. I mean, there's a difference between Vietnam era and in-country Vietnam. Yeah, you have. And really what? Like I said when I was a county, the law has changed. You're in a protected category if you served in Vietnam because of your exposure to Agent Orange. That automatically enrolls you into the VA medical. I mean you have to get enrolled, you have to fill out the paperwork, bring your 214 in. But I mean your exposure to Agent Orange, but I mean your exposure to Agent Orange as far as I remember, John.

John Dorle: 13:17

you tell me if I'm wrong, but as far as I remember, you're exempt from the means test with the VA Medical Center if you can show Agent Orange exposure, and that would even any type of Agent. Orange exposure Korea, vietnam airplanes that carried the Agent Orange. You know that kind of thing.

J Basser: 13:27

So get on the registry get on the PACT Act and Agent Orange registry. Get on the registry and they'll do that. But no, he should be getting free medicine care. I mean as far as that he must still have co-pays to pay. But you know, anytime you're involved in herbicide or testing like that, it's the same thing as a project captain.

Ray Cobb: 13:53

Well, he was around a lot of jet fuel. He was a mechanic and he worked on the motors jet motors. So he he said, oh yeah, I was around fuel every day, so I don't, but he doesn't have any cancer. His hearing from being around the engines is really is only what I was. From what he told me today, it's the only thing that I recognize as being a disability that he may be entitled to. You know, spending six years working around in the Air Force working around jet engines.

J Basser: 14:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Dorle: 14:41

I yeah, Ray, he should definitely, and at that age he could rate real high for hearing loss. And then automatically 10% for tinnitus.

Ray Cobb: 14:54

Well, he had to ask me a lot of times to repeat what I was saying, and I'm not for sure if his hearing was a point that he couldn't understand what I was saying or he actually was dropping off words, you know so he didn't understand what I was saying.

J Basser: 15:12

Given his age, go ahead and get the plane filed. Help him do it, Get it turned into it. Let's figure it out, because he goes to the top of the line, he goes to the head of the train, he gets to ride in the engine.

Ray Cobb: 15:26

Well, that's what I told him, and I also told him he likes his. He's actually from another county, coffey County, up the road from us here in.

J Basser: 15:34

Manchester.

Ray Cobb: 15:36

And he likes that county service officer. They have a new one up there. He's been around only a couple of years. So I said, if you feel comfortable with him, if you think he's doing you a good job, go see him.

J Basser: 15:50

Yeah, the rest of us get a ride. Hanging on to the booth with Magnus on our feet.

John Dorle: 16:00

You get rated for hearing loss. You get rated for tinnitus and given his age and his poor hearing, I suspect he could get rated pretty high for hearing loss automatic 10% for tinnitus. Aren't comfortable with it, but when they hear so poorly it causes them depression, anxiety Anxiety in the sense that they get worked up because they don't think people are going to hear them, or depression because they can't associate society the way they want to, and you can get rated for depression and anxiety as well. And then you get rated for depression and anxiety as well. Then you get rated for depression and anxiety. Typically, the older guys have sleep apnea. You can see how the gears are turning. This guy is 100% part of the total weight, right? John?

J Basser: 17:02

He's waiting in the wings for 100% front and total. He's got a very short period of time to do it. It has nothing to do with VA claims. When you get that age you better get her done, because time is not on your side, especially if you've got a wife.

Ray Cobb: 17:20

His wife has passed away already. He's 79 years old. His wife has passed away already. He's 79 years old. So you know, I mean he's really for 79 years old. He sounded pretty good.

J Basser: 17:34

I'm 76. He needs to go to a 30-year-old and put her on. Get 100% and let her keep on giving until she passes away. In 50, 60 years, get some of it back.

John Dorle: 17:47

That's what I was thinking. That's a good question, ray. I think in general your county service officers they try to do right by veterans. But but, like john said, there is strategy there and, uh, he makes good points. Yeah, sometimes you can keep yourself in the foot by filing a claim too soon, as opposed to waiting till you're like 79, 80 years old, because it's a lot easier to pin it on the military as compared to working in a mechanic shop for the past 20 years. You know that kind of thing. Not that we're trying to cheat the VA or anything like that, but I think that you know we need to give veterans every advantage that we can and reasonable doubt, point the finger at the military every chance you get. So it is strategic as to when you file a claim, but I think at the age of 79, that's a no-brainer. Yeah, he needs to file a claim and, like I said, it's quite possible he could get rated real high for it given his poor hearing.

Ray Cobb: 19:04

Yeah, I feel like he would.

J Basser: 19:06

Yeah.

John Dorle: 19:07

I hope the county service officer feels that way too. Some are really good and some are, you know, I don't know. So I had a little bit of a war story. I had a gal call me, a veteran gal call me the other day, wanted me to represent her, and I explained to her. I said, you know I'm not taking cases anymore, but you know I'm looking to retire in the next four years or so. But I'll get you in line, I'll get you hooked up with someone and she was out of Texas and not to pick on Texas, the Texas Veterans Commission are very good when it comes to representing veterans, but not this time, unfortunately. They ran her around and she was crying and she just was suicidal and the whole thing and they just didn't give her the TLC they needed. So I ended up taking the case and so we'll see what I can do with her. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, as in with any profession my profession or anyone else's there's good advocates and there's not so good advocates.

John Dorle: 20:30

So if you're listening to this, podcast just remember that if an advocate tells you no, don't take it as gossip. Look at every avenue. You can do your research. Talk to other advocates, talk to your friends, talk to your family, get the claims in. The worst the VA can do is say no. At the very least you get a decision. You have a year to appeal it and you can build on that. Once you get into an appeal status, you get plenty of attorneys and claims agents, such as myself, that probably would be more than happy to take the case.

J Basser: 21:01

But don't hesitate in getting your claim in.

John Dorle: 21:04

Like I said, the worst the VA can do is say no. They have to go into detail as to why they say no, and we can go off of that as a power of attorney. So as far as timeliness guys, I guess I could build a little bit on a little history on the appeals process. I like to think that's my swing zone, but in the day I talked about that earlier we had the legacy appeals process.

J Basser: 21:39

It switched over to the Appeals Management Act of the.

John Dorle: 21:42

EMA right around 2018-2019. It's a whole different way of doing things with the VA. As far as appeals. When you get a decision from the VA and it's a denial, or if it's a grant but not as great as how you want, you can always appeal that decision.

Ray Cobb: 22:02

There's three different types of appeals.

John Dorle: 22:05

You've got the supplemental lane review the higher level review and the Board of Veterans Appeal, so a supplemental lane review is basically you're telling the VA that I have new evidence that you haven't looked at before.

John Dorle: 22:19

I'm going to supplement my appeal with this evidence and I want you to make a different decision. Or you can go a higher-level review and say I don't have any new evidence, but I think you applied the line correctly and therefore I want a higher-level review. This is a decision review officer. And what's got a DRock? There's three of them in the country.

Ray Cobb: 22:40

St.

John Dorle: 22:40

Petersburg, seattle and Washington DC DROs DROS they're called are higher level raters. They've got more seasonings. They don't always make the right decision, but they have more seasonings. So under don't always make the right decision, but they have more seasonings. So under a higher level review you can have a DRO. Look at your case. The third option is you can skip both of those and go right to the Board of Veterans Appeals and get a decision from them. I don't typically go to the Board of Veterans Appeals, right?

Ray Cobb: 23:11

away.

John Dorle: 23:11

I do a higher level review before we go to the Board of Veterans Appeals because, like I said earlier, the wait time seven to twelve months now, which is still a lot but not too bad, but up until about a year ago.

John Dorle: 23:25

It was about what we mentioned earlier about three and a half years. So I avoid the Board of Veterans Appeals as much as I can, just because of the wait. If we can win it under a higher level review, that gives us another swing at the plate, and if we have to go to the board of veterans appeals later, we can do that. So that's kind of it and that's where I'll bond on the three options you have when you get a decision from the VA. Now, the timeframe for supplemental lane reviews is about 125 days, depending upon the complexity of the case, and the same with the higher-level reviews. The VA's goal is 125 days, which is not too bad, but I think that I'm seeing these types of cases coming in at about 125 days. They're sticking to that as much as they can, but again, that depends on the complexity.

John Dorle: 24:19

One other thing that I should mention is that you came up with this what's called a claims accuracy review, we call it CAR. When you file a higher level review and if you feel like, as the advocate, that this case, the slam dunk, is closed, uh, you can label it as a car claims accuracy review and the v is obligated to keep that within a month. Not everything qualifies as a car, but uh, but that's another option that we, as advocates, but that's another option that we, as advocates, you know we use to help expedite claims. So most veterans are unaware of that, but I think that most experienced advocates and powers of attorney are going to be aware of what a CAR CAR CRIBES Accuracy Review is.

John Dorle: 25:18

So that's another tool that we use as advocates to try to expedite claims. Then, of course, like I said earlier, I mean the standard expedite is always the case. If your case is at a local VA regional office, if you're 85 years of age or older, they have to expedite it, except the Board of Veterans Appeals is 75 years of age or older, and then under either scenario you have a financial hardship, a threat of homelessness, that type of thing they have to expedite. Or if you have a situation where the veteran is terminal or in very, very severe health, they will expedite the procedure. From that too, I'll give you a credit. When we can demonstrate an expedite, they do get on their horses on that.

Ray Cobb: 26:08

I think they do pretty good about that. Quick question On a higher level review have you noticed the percentage or do you have any idea about how much of a turnover that's granted on the veterans that go to the higher level review versus one who does a supplemental claim?

John Dorle: 26:29

I don't have any statistics, ray, I just don't. I go with my gut on that. My theory is this when we get a decision and I'm talking to a veteran about it, the first thing I do is I try to see if they can produce new and relevant evidence. If they think they can, or if they want to go see a doctor for a medical opinion Nexus Medical Opinion or if they've got some medical records they think they can. Or if they want to go see a doctor for a medical opinion Nexus Medical opinion or if they've got some medical records they think that will back them up, then I would do a supplemental name review, because what that does is it gives us another swing at the plate before we have to go to a higher level review.

John Dorle: 27:13

But if the veteran says you know, john, I can't get anything. I've tried. I don't think I can get everything, but I would like to appeal this and say, okay, well, let's strategize this, we can do a higher level review. We've got eight issues. I see at least three of them we can go to a higher level review. I really think the other four or five you're going to need new, relevant evidence. We kind of huddle up and strategize those types of things. But if a veteran tells me I can't get any new evidence, then we do go a higher level review. But as far as statistics, numbers, as far as the win percentage, on the higher level review as compared to a supplemental lane review.

John Dorle: 27:58

I think it's just too varied because with a supplemental, lane review, it's introducing new and relevant evidence, and we don't know what that kind of evidence would be. It could be really weak evidence that the VA is still mandated to make a decision, or it could be really really solid evidence. So those percentages vary in those cases as well. I think the better question might be the difference between a higher level review and a Board of Veterans Appeals. In a higher level review, you can't submit new evidence. Under a Board of Veterans Appeals appeal and a direct review, you can't submit new evidence under a Board of Veterans Appeals appeal. Under a direct review, you can't submit new evidence either. So then we're on a firm playing ground, meaning what's better higher level review or Board of Veterans Appeals. Like I said, I always go higher level review.

John Dorle: 28:47

First because it gives us another swing at the plate before we have to go to the Board of Veterans Appeals, because if the Board of Veterans Appeals denies this, we're going to have to come in with new and relevant evidence to have it looked at again. I mean, you're a bit more limited when you get to a Board of Veterans Appeals and you get denied. So exhausting your options with the supplemental lane review and a higher level review are best and then, if need be, go to the Board of Veterans Appeals.

Ray Cobb: 29:25

Unless someone is very sharp. I usually recommend that after they get their denial. Recommend that after they get their denial, even if it's obvious that they overlook something in your medical records, which they have mine I always recommend they get an agent at that time because you have pointed out some excellent things that an agent can talk to them about that a county service officer can't and won't, and you can kind of rationalize out which is going to be the best way and the fastest way. And you know, I usually tell anyone that I've helped get started or that calls me about a denial that they've received. You know, what should we do next or what can I do next? I usually start looking for an agent that specializes in that in order to try to get them on board and get them started that way. I just think in the way the appeal process works today, they need that extra help. I just at least the ones that I have read into.

Ray Cobb: 30:42

Now I'm going to take back the fact that I've had two or three that I've talked with and referred to James Cripps' web page, va the Redneck Way, and they followed that script and done that, and then they've also looked at John's and they win the first time around.

Ray Cobb: 31:03

You know, even 100%, with four or five different problems, and you know. But the guys that you know, you can kind of I can't kind of evaluate what they need to do. Basically, if I'm talking to a gentleman that finished high school and that's the only education that he really has and the rest of it's you know, as we say around here back behind the barn, then those are the guys that I'm going to say you need to get an agent In the appeals process today. Regardless of which one, what I've seen that works, you almost have to write a legal brief or pretty close to it in order to win the case in a reasonable period of time. It in order to win the case in a reasonable period of time. And I don't know of how many veterans, especially, let's say, 75 and older, can actually do that. I mean, a lot of guys I talk with can't even use a computer.

Ray Cobb: 32:11

They're not on VAgov.

John Dorle: 32:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, your point's well taken. Uh ray, I I think that, as someone who used to be a county veteran service officer, I I hope I wouldn't have been judged by my peers. I certainly think that there are very good county service officers out there. They're they're very good national service officers out there, primarily with the disabled American veterans on a national level. But that said and John Stacey, you know this but us claims agents and attorneys, we have skin in the game. Okay, most of us are veterans. We want to do right by you.

John Dorle: 32:56

I'm a veteran, I want to win the claim for you. But from a business standpoint, we have skin in the game. So it's our business incentive to win those claims, whereas the free services they're going to get a check every two weeks, regardless of how well they do. So I think my primary incentive certainly is for the veteran but to keep the lights on and pay the rent, feed the kids. You know I need to win these claims. So I'm going to do everything and anything I can do to win those claims, and that means research, always keeping my ear to the ground, networking with my peers, building relationships with the Department of Veterans Affairs, just doing anything and every law, rule and regulation that comes out, and I think most of your successful compensated attorneys and agents are probably going to say the same things we have skin in the game. It's our incentive to win it and we're going to do everything we can to win it, not only because we care for our trends, but because we want to earn a living and, to put it blindly, that's exactly what we're looking to do is try to earn a living, but we also want to serve our veterans as well.

John Dorle: 34:29

So I think when you're saying that you should automatically always get an attorney or an agent, I think that's good advice, but I would also suggest that there are plenty of free services out there that they're very good. Like I said, when I was a county service officer, I worked with my peers. I worked with national service officers, and they were very sharp as well. So I think that you know veterans nowadays they get a denial. You can have your cake and eat it too. You can save that 20% fee that I'm going to charge on that thing and give services through your free services as well. You save that fee and then you also get your maximum compensation as well. That's a possibility.

John Dorle: 35:22

It doesn't always happen that way, but you can have your best of both worlds and have your cake and eat it too, so to speak, but I think if you really want to hit the nail on the head, you're going to want to get someone with my experience or someone equivalent. I mean, there's plenty of law firms out there that are well-established, you know that would be more than willing to hear your case. What I am seeing, though, ray, is that a lot of law firms they're not going to take every case, and, unfortunately, some of them are only going to take the big buck cases, the ones that have been pending for a very long time, the ones that they have a very, very good chance at winning, and so you know that's unfortunate that they don't take those cases that are going to require you to roll up your sleeves and and get into the mud with the v8 but there are a lot of firms out there that will will fight for you, I believe.

John Dorle: 36:21

I know I would.

Ray Cobb: 36:28

That's some great points. I mean it's you know I can name one national service officer down in Nashville in the Nashville Regional Office. I think she's great. She helped me win my first Agent Orange case exposed in the United States, you know, and she's helped me with other cases. And then as time went on and I went to a higher level, I had to quit doing it for myself and actually the last two cases I filed I ended up having to get someone to help with it. But then I'm talking about I'm up in the R2 and the level 2 range, which is quite different and quite more intact and requires a lot more documentation.

John Dorle: 37:18

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

John Dorle: 37:19

I think that when you get into the real complicated cases as well-meaning as a lot of advocates are and that goes for claims agents and attorneys as well advocates are, and that goes for claims agents and attorneys as well when they get really, really complicated, they're out of their realm.

John Dorle: 37:39

So I think when you get into the complicated cases where you're falling into the SMC, the M's and the L's and the L and a half and the M and a half and the R1, r2, all that stuff, uh you're going to want to get, uh, an attorney or agent or even a national service officer that that knows the rules and regulations real well, because, uh, while not every veteran uh falls into that area of of smc and higher levels of SMC and the different precedent opinions with the court, there does come a time where you have to apply that, and so that's a situation where you're going to want to start interviewing different advocates and representatives, and I always tell people that you know attorneys are pretty intelligent.

John Dorle: 38:35

They have to be, you know, to get a law degree. But just because they have a sheepskin on their wall doesn't mean they have what it takes to fight off the VA. It takes a lot of experience, it takes a lot of know-how, it takes a lot of relationships and it takes a lot of book knowledge as well. So, if you find an advocate with all those types of features, sink your teeth into him or her, because they're the ones that'll get you where you need to go.

Ray Cobb: 39:05

Yeah, I was able to get up to my R1 and to my caregiver level one without getting anyone involved, but to get those next two I definitely had to get somebody involved because, you know, I turned it in and when I turned in should have been awarded right off the bat but it wasn't. So I had to get someone that pointed out where they had made their mistake and what they didn't look at, someone that pointed out where they had made their mistake and what they didn't look at, um, and when they did that, then you know I won, and both of them were won in less than than 12 months. So you know I was quite satisfied, but I don't think if I had not gotten someone of your caliber or like you, I don't think I would have ever gotten to the R1 or R2, because it required more capabilities than what I personally have.

John Dorle: 40:01

Good point, good point.

John Dorle: 40:03

I think that the VA tends to try to walk all over veterans when it comes to more complicated cases, even less complicated cases, they'll do that. But when the veteran comes into a situation where they have especially a well-known law firm, someone they've worked with before that knows they mean business, that gets their attention and, either consciously or subconsciously, I think, some of those decision review officers and or BVA judges or people that are making those decisions, they tend to think they can kind of big league the veteran but they're not going to big league some of the more experienced advocates, some of the more experienced advocates. So and yeah, I mean you did well to get yourself up to R1 and it's unfortunate they didn't grant R2 with you representing yourself. It sounds like the evidence was there. It probably could have saved you the fee that maybe your your attorney charged. But I think you might think that I would guess that you think it was well worth it because that person got you to where you needed, whereas you don't think you could have gotten there by yourself.

Ray Cobb: 41:22

Well, in my case, I think I could have gotten there eventually, but I think it'd probably been 36 months, not 10 months. And I think, because I got him, I got it in 10 months instead of 36 months. And you know, yeah, that's a thousand dollars and you know he gets 20%, that's not, that's not going to keep the lights on very long, yeah, but you know it's it's what I felt like was the best way to do it, so that's the way I went and you were smart.

John Dorle: 41:58

You understand that as long as you keep that appeals window open, your back pay is going to be even larger. So it's always better to get something in 10 months as compared to 36 months months, even though the back pay would be larger. Uh, you know, we we want to get compensated as soon as we can. Uh, life is funny. We're all, we're all alive today, but who knows, tomorrow is guaranteed nothing, right? So absolutely, we need to hold the va to a higher standard right off the bat.

J Basser: 42:35

That's what I call stacking 50s and dragging the wagon. There you go. As long as you drag that wagon, the heavy is still a gift.

John Dorle: 42:44

John, we lost your picture there a few times. I'm glad you came back.

J Basser: 42:49

Yeah, I know I had a couple of technical issues when I did it. I guess I had a power surge or something. I guess we had a storm, so we're okay now.

John Dorle: 42:57

All right, all right.

J Basser: 42:59

Yeah, we're good.

John Dorle: 43:04

John, you're kind of quiet. You have any questions at all. You want to throw anything at me?

J Basser: 43:11

You're pondering two other issues. You know, like other cases of other diabetic stuff and things like that. Of course I've got a list of stuff. I'll run your way.

J Basser: 43:27

But diabetes is a very I guess we say it's a very diverse disease because you've got so many secondary issues. You can claim off of that one issue and I don't think a lot of folks understand that. You know, because you basically you got insulin dependent diabetes or diabetes itself. You know you've got. You've got all the neuropathies. You've got eye issues, you've got bowel and bladder issues. You've got the small fiber neuropathy, which they don't really focus on too much of the you know. The problem is you got diabetic neuropathy and small fiber neuropathy. They'll send you and do the test on your feet and your legs and things like that for the nerves. However, your large fiber nerves might be operating to a good extent, but the small fibers are the ones messed up. So the rate schedule, but the rate schedule doesn't pick that out. They just consider it as diabetic neuropathy. There's some things in that area that the VA can improve on. There's a lot of things they can improve on in the rate and schedule.

John Dorle: 44:45

From a medical side, getting a good, qualified endocrinologist that deals with diabetes type 2 on a regular basis and all the residuals that come along with it, including the kidneys and the heart and the vision and the neuropathy and the different levels of neuropathy and the nerves involved. And yeah, it is something that's a very insidious disease. I've had veterans that have had amputations.

John Dorle: 45:20

I've had them die because of diabetes. I've had veterans spend time in nursing homes because of diabetes and so if it goes unchecked and untreated, it can really it'll get you. So you're right. From a medical side, it's important to find an endocrinologist that is experienced and can document everything and provide the appropriate letters and nexus letters that we can use to help win claims. And then, of course, from the Raiders side, they have to be up and experienced on all the residuals that go along with diabetes. I know for myself. I continually try to educate myself on a variety of different diseases that come about. I mean, medical science is changing all the time. Diabetes is something that is important to learn. I know I've learned a lot from our colleagues over the years. John, I've learned from you. I won't get into details, but you've got disabilities that maybe kind of scratch my head and think, yeah, let me research that a little bit closer.

Ray Cobb: 46:36

You know, let's look at that a little bit closer, and a lot of it I knew.

John Dorle: 46:40

but you don't deal with them all the time and so you kind of there's so much to remember. But then it keys your memory and it's like, yeah, you brought up something, I want to research that a little bit. Your memory. And it's like, yeah, he brought up something, I want to research that a little bit. Yeah, so I learned a lot from my clients doing this 33 years, and some of your biggest teachers are your clients, as well as your peers and your teachers what's your opinion on?

Ray Cobb: 47:07

like John and myself here, we are pretty highly rated as far as I'm, more than John with the diabetes and things. However, things are continuing to worsen and I'm continuing to lose use of my hands, for example. Now is there any reason for me to go back and file a claim or ask for an increase? The best example my hands are, I think, ones at 30 and ones at 40%. Now, realistically, that was done back prior to 2010. I think it was about 2008. So they definitely worsened a lot and I've lost, you know, almost complete grip in my left hand. Does it even benefit me in any way to take the time and the effort and put another claim into the wheel?

John Dorle: 48:17

I see, john shaking his head no, yep, I agree.

Ray Cobb: 48:20

I agree too, John. I don't want to get into a hassle but some people say well, why don't you put in for more? There's nothing else I can get.

John Dorle: 48:28

Yeah, you can't, unless the law changes are to the highest you can get.

J Basser: 48:33

Here you need your little. Unless you keep that, claim file closed.

John Dorle: 48:40

Unless you had a wife that was in need of aid and attendance, you might get a higher dependency allowance. There's some hospital benefits that you could get Not necessarily from a caregiver standpoint If your wife was taking care of you. There's a caregiver allotment that's afforded her and there's medical services that you might qualify for as you get worse off Nursing home care and stuff like that. But as far as a monthly compensation, r2 is the highest unless they change the law.

J Basser: 49:21

I think it would be. Anytime you're an R2 vet, there's basically no reason at all to file another claim because you do not want to give them the opportunity to open that claims folder up. It says green had a certain amount of time, at least 10 years, or because 20 year, 20 year protection rule. You know it worked. But the uh. You know I just hit one of my 100 just a couple days ago and so you know the protectors are in there for a reason. But I would not touch anything or open any claim up, just the higher you get rated. You know I wouldn't open anything else up because you never know, I mean, if they're.

John Dorle: 50:04

All it takes is one person to look at something the wrong way and you got a headache yeah, and there's always the chance that I've seen it happen too, where the VA committed a clear and unmistakable error.

John Dorle: 50:20

I'm not saying that's the case with you, ray, but you could be rated for R2 or any percentage. And you poke the bear and all of a sudden you get some bean counter that looks at it and says, well, we shouldn't have rated that person at that percentage. At that time we made an error. We're going to propose to lower that person's upper extremity from 60 down to 10 or something like that. You know, it's something crazy like that.

John Dorle: 50:56

It can happen. So I think that be careful when you poke the berry R2, there's no doubt you wouldn't. But I mean, if you're 100% permanent total and you're not drawing special monthly compensation unless you qualify for smc special monthly compensation, I wouldn't touch it. I think most advocates would tell you that as well. Uh, unless you know, even sometimes I get veterans are 100 permanent total and and they think, well, I've got erectile dysfunction so maybe I can get an extra 180 bucks a month. I'm like maybe, possibly, but is 180 a month worth it to for them to open up the pandora's box again? I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't risk it myself.

Ray Cobb: 51:45

But that's a great example. Uh, I have a gentleman that I've been helping. He actually has worsened a lot. He had not hit the 10-year mark. He was at eight years with his feet, but his feet had gotten worse and so he asked for an increase and, trying to get from a 40% to a 60% or to an L, his ankles are locked out. Well, they reduced him, they took him down 10% and he couldn't understand why.

Ray Cobb: 52:18

And I said, well, let's look at this. What did you not tell me? I asked you if you'd been going to the doctor. Well, I have. I've been seeing Dr Anderson here locally. I said have you gone to any VA doctor? No, I didn't like them. Well, did you get VA to recommend your community care? No, well, those are two very important things, guys, because if there's no record in a year that you've received treatment, these guys in the VA are going to assume that you have improved your condition and they're going to worry you. I mean, it was only 10%, but then what I've encouraged him to do is ask for a hearing, because that's taken three or four years and that gives him enough time to get back into the va and get updated documentation about how bad his ankles are and also getting prosthetics and, uh, I'm sure they won't reduce him and they may give him the increase that he was seeking he should have got the records from.

J Basser: 53:28

He should have got the records from outside doctor and turned to me and say, no, you don't. Well, that's a good point, but he didn't and so now he's going to do that.

Ray Cobb: 53:40

That's on him Right, but the less they have to do with the VA, the better they like it.

J Basser: 53:48

You've got to be careful, you've got to be careful You've got.

John Dorle: 53:52

To be careful You've got to play the game.

J Basser: 53:53

You've got to play the game. Ray, you know that you don't play the game.

John Dorle: 54:00

That 10 and 20-year rule, if I remember right.

J Basser: 54:03

After 10 years they can never reduce you and after 20 years they can never sever you, if I remember right 20 years is the only way they can sever you, and the only way they can either sever or touch it really is due to fraud.

John Dorle: 54:19

Yeah, yeah. So those are things to keep in mind as well. But well, how would a Q apply to that though? Because I tell you I'm confident I've seen cases where the guys have been rated for a number of years but they come in and they do something with their claims and they realize that that bad condition that they had rated 40% should have been rated 10%. You know, I've seen them monkey with that too.

J Basser: 54:51

if it's a Q, but you know I've seen them monkey with that too. If it's a cue, well, cue is a different issue too, because cue goes back to the date whenever it arose. So if I made a cue in an original claim and the guy had it for so many years they found a cue, then I guess they can take it. They could. But that's held open court too. So you know, I mean they can do that. It was a mistake. But it also depends on one thing too. Now if there's a cue and if it doesn't affect the overall service-needed disability say, if a person's a stacker and he's got 100 plus an SMC plus, he's got 300 or 400 percent more of the different ratings and whatever he does reduction or whatever he makes is going to affect his rating.

John Dorle: 55:37

If they leave it alone.

J Basser: 55:38

Yeah, unless you're me. Yeah, yeah.

John Dorle: 55:43

The story is yet to be told, but yeah, we covered a lot.

J Basser: 55:52

Yeah, we did, man, we did. We'll cover it again next week too, though. So what's on tap?

John Dorle: 56:00

next week, who's going to be your guest?

J Basser: 56:03

I've got a couple of ideas. I haven't had any confirmation yet as far as the actual guest itself, but if anybody listens, say a little prayer for Mr James Cripps. He's in the weather pretty bad and he's going to need all the prayers and get his hands on him, because this time he's got some serious stuff going on. Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree, yeah. So, ray, I'm glad you made it buddy.

Ray Cobb: 56:32

Yeah, glad to be back Back in the chair again.

J Basser: 56:39

And the bears didn't get you all up there in eastern Tennessee.

Ray Cobb: 56:43

Did not see any bears. Saw some beautiful elk, though, even at both nights in Cherokee we actually had elk walk right in front of our balcony, so that was kind of neat.

J Basser: 56:59

If you need to take a trip up to Stacy Home Place in Perry County, Kentucky. You want to see some elk.

Ray Cobb: 57:06

You got some big ones up there, huh.

J Basser: 57:10

Yeah, they got plenty of elk on them Right there. Actually it's on our land so we can go up and check it out. Yeah Well, listen guys. Thank you guys for coming on. John, you always man. I know you're retired and you don't take any new clients, so we're still gonna milk it for all it's worth. Buddy, we're gonna keep you on as much as we can. Sounds good.

John Dorle: 57:35

Until you give it up, you know, thanks for having me on. Hopefully I helped a little bit.

J Basser: 57:40

Take care of that grandbaby buddy. All right, I will Thanks guys. All right Thanks for listening to the show. We'll be back again next week. This is John, on behalf of Ray and Mr John Doherty. We'll be shutting it down for now.

Ray Cobb: 57:55

Good night. Good night, thank you.