J Basser: 0:00

And today is the eighth day of May 2025. Of course, mr Ray Cobb, he will join us shortly. He's kind of tied up in some right now. So I want to thank everybody for listening, tuning in and watching on the old YouTube. We appreciate you very much. You can also listen to the show on other venues, such as Apple Podcasts and some other places.

J Basser: 0:27

We decided to do a different type of show today. I belong to several groups and a couple of Facebook groups, and I keep seeing a lot of stuff on some of these groups that kind of cringes you a little bit. It's about representation and things like that, and you know what happens if this happens in different scenarios, and we're going to do a show and basically talk about that representation. And I think Ray just made it in. Give me a second, folks, let's put him in here. Put him in here. I believe he's here. I think he's getting all worked up. I believe he's here. I think he's getting all worked up. I believe he's coming in. Anyhow, we're going to discuss different issues about representation and how to choose a representative and what to do in case you get one that you're not satisfied with. I want to start off the first thing I want to do is explain what representation is.

J Basser: 1:25

When you file a VA claim, you know you file it yourself. If you want to. On a 21-5-26 EZ, you file your initial claim and they'll ask you would you like to have representation? You know, in the VSO, which is the Veterans Service Officer, there's a list of them they can choose from and you can pick. You know you can pick the American Legion or the DAV or whoever you know that you want to use.

J Basser: 1:46

Usually it doesn't take long to do it at all. It's just giving them the power of attorney over your claim so they can run interference for you and help you do stuff. Their services are cost free. They don't charge you nothing, which is good. You're starting out with this crap and you got a lot of. You know if you're a regular vet and you're disabled, you're pretty sure you got. You know your financial situation may not be the best in the world, so it kind of gives you a free alternative to get some help. And but there are certain things that I want to recommend you do before you select one of these organizations to help you. To help you, and it'll make you a lot happier in the long run. I know it'll make me a lot happier and my partner Ray there, speaking of Ray, how you doing, ray?

Ray Cobb: 2:30

I'm doing good. How are you?

J Basser: 2:32

I'm doing good, buddy, I'm doing really good. We should get started on the show here. I'm going into the representation part now. Vso Veterans Service Officers who work for the state level or for the American Legion or the Disabled American Veterans. They are service officers, okay, and they're accredited through their different entity, like the American Legion or the DAV or whatever, and they have to know what they're doing to a certain extent and they have be able to. You know, do your claim and know how to track your claim. Uh, biggest thing that I look at is accreditation. Make sure they're credited, make sure that they do that. You know if they have their education credits. They're supposed to have so many done per year, but uh, really don't worry about it too much. But the biggest issue that I see and that I see veterans face is uh, once you get the accreditation, the VA's got a system called the Veterans Benefit Management System, or VBMS, that allows your representative to actually look at your claim in real time and, instead of everybody wondering, you know what's going on with my claim or this and that you know, as long as you have good representation, who's willing to look at it, then you know they can look at it and tell you where it's at in real time.

J Basser: 3:48

Some do and some, you know, won't do it. It all depends on, because if you put two and two together and you look at the services, you look at it and say, okay, this guy's the FO, he's pretty good at what he does, but you look at his workflow, he's probably busy. Because I mean, if you're good like that and you've got that service, you're probably pounded because their veterans told their buddies about you. And next thing you know, you're probably buried in VA claims. You ever heard that, ray? I have, yeah. So when you get buried in VA claims, that's not a good thing. So I see a lot of issues on the boards too, to where somebody says I don't need to be a soul, I'm going to do this all by myself. That's good and well and fine and dandy.

J Basser: 4:33

But if you're going to do this by yourself, you need to do one of two things. First thing you need to do is learn VA law to a certain extent. Second thing you need to do is look at Title 38, part 3 and Part 4, and you need to figure that out and know what's wrong with you and what the VA does to adjudicate it. Because if you go in here and you don't understand this, then they're going to make short work of you and it's supposed to be non-adversarial. But, as I said last week, the first thing you look at is your character discharge. That's kind of an automatic line. You know you've got a bad paper discharge and that's about auto-denial. Same thing Social Security. If you find a Social Security disability still working, that's kind of a no-no too. So you know, I've never seen anybody get approved still working. I've seen some people get approved that were working out of desperation but not actually working. But anyhow, that covers that.

J Basser: 5:31

So if you select your VSO and your representative you need to write this down you make sure they're accredited, that's first and foremost. Make sure they have access to BVMS. If they don't fund somebody else, because you're going to be stuck in the mud if you don't. And some places got some pretty deep mud, quicksand mud or whatever, and if something happens to your claim and something happens that gets it off the rails, say it's a little bit, has a little issue of complexity with it and it gets off the rails, I'm going to tell you it could take you years to get it back on the rails. And if you get a denial and you appeal to the denial and you get another denial and you go to a supplemental claim to get another denial and you go to the Board of Vets to appeal and you're a younger person that doesn't have an ability to advance on the docket, you can wait up to four or five, six years or longer, depending on your you know certain you know situation longer depending on your you know certain you know situation. So I know some folks have said I know one guy just got ready last year. It was going since 2002. So you know that's a long time and it took me 14 years to go get my current level. Okay. But the accreditation is very important. Make sure your claim is on track. You know your VA SO should be able to tell you what you need and things like that. He has access to your record. He can help you find stuff.

J Basser: 6:54

Let's go with disagreements. Say you got a VA, so that's really busy and work, work, work. And you know you've got a little bit of computer knowledge. You know you can go into VAgov and you can navigate around a little bit to see what's going on. I suspect if you don't know how to do it, learn it. And if you're up in your 60s, like I am, you know you can still learn it, especially if you've got a grandchild or someone in the house that is a teenager, and teenagers can make a computer talk and they can help you right through it. You know, get you through it. But anyhow, make sure you navigate a little bit and say you got a disagree. Say you filed a claim, you took the claim into your VSO and you had six issues, six items, and you want to file the claim. It's okay. Well, you were. Basically, you had an intent to file and you gave it to him, you started filing the claims and then you find out later on down the road, maybe six, seven months later, they only followed one of the six and the other five had been touched.

J Basser: 7:49

I saw this the other day on one of the boards I'm not going to say which one, but I'm like oh no, that's what I mean. Oh no. And one guy wanted to put extra evidence in on a supplemental claim and he said the VSO was used to do it. And that's another red flag for me. You know if you've got buddy statements and things like that or different things you want to put in to help support that claim. On a supplemental claim you can add new evidence.

J Basser: 8:17

So if you don't want to do it or the VSO don't want to do it, I would sit back and send an email to your VSO and say, here, here's what I'm doing. I'll go on to VAgov and I'll log up and you can get into the claim and you can actually submit evidence. You can click on that. You can have your stuff scanned in and send it right in. You can. It's not hard to do. Tell your VSO you did it.

J Basser: 8:37

You know those other six issues and those six items that wouldn't submit it, I'd do it yourself. Do whatever it takes. You know, because regardless of how the VSO, you know if they make a mistake or whatever, regardless if it gets past the appeal date or the appeal period and you miss it, you're out of luck, even though, because what they're saying, if you don't appeal a claim to the ACN, you agree with me. That's what they're saying. You know, and that's kind of like a. You know, it's a silent. No, you know, and that's what they're saying and you don't want that to happen. I don't want to happen either, you know. I mean, we're looking out for the veteran, I'm looking out for other stuff. Just what you do If you have to do it. You know you tell your bitch, oh sorry, where. I'm going back 30 years doing this.

J Basser: 9:28

Okay, I've seen certain instances where VSO gets just totally discombobulated, comes in, glued, something happens, whether it's a medical problem or something like that, and they just fall off the face of the earth. You know it happens a lot. You know A lot of organizations use these VSOs. Some of these guys are elderly, some of them have, you know, health conditions. The same things happen. You know I've known three or four of this. You know they passed away and left a whole bunch of climates around not knowing what's what, and it takes a while to catch back up. So but then if you don't get along with the VSOs, you have got options.

J Basser: 10:12

The VAgov website maintains a list of all VSOs and all attorneys, updated to a certain extent, you know, because they have to keep updating. It might be two months behind, but still they're there. It's got contact information, phone numbers. You can do VSOs from any organization as long as you know, like I said, as long as you do the qualifications on them and they're accredited for the initial claim, they can take over and the VA will take care of the paperwork. You know you don't have to have one removed. They can take over the document, takes over and does auto removal. But you can still cast the age and remove them and tell them why. There's no money involved with a VSO. Or you can do basically what I did and what some other folks have done. You can go through this If you're in the pill process and you've got a VSO and you don't think he's doing what he's supposed to be doing. It wouldn't matter if you're in the HLR lane, supplemental lane, heading to the BVA or whatever.

J Basser: 11:08

You go down that list and look at all the certified, accredited appeals agents. There's several of them out there now but basically it's all they do and I know several of them. We've had them on the show before and that's what these people do full time. That's their livelihood. You know, if they don't win their claim, they're had them on the show before and that's what these people do full-time. That's their livelihood. You know, if they don't win their claim, they're not getting paid with your pills and so they've got a little more skin in the game and you know. Plus, they know a lot of different things. You know we've got some people that have a lot of specialty areas like high-level special monthly compensation and things like that and you know they thrive in those settings and of course they pick and choose a little bit on their clientele because you know they kind of work a lot more with veterans that are eternally ill or in bad shape that their spouses will be.

J Basser: 11:56

You know basically the beneficiary, the DIC and accrued benefits, because a lot of it's morbid in that situation. But there's several of them out there and I know a couple that's retiring. Go down the list to find you a good one. You can ask on the sites. You know who's who Look them up. We've got you know each state's got a few of them now and you know they're busy.

J Basser: 12:20

But still you know if you're in the appeal process and you really want to see what's going on, talk to them. They'll look at your information documentation. They'll make a decision whether to accept you or not and you'll talk to them and see it might cost you 20% of your back pay but it depends on where you're at and what level you're at as far as how much back pay you'll get or whatever your claim. If you've got something going back years and years. It might be beneficial to do it. But some people say don't ever get a paid representative. Well, I see no problem with it. It's just 20%. If you do it and you don't win, then you get nothing. I'd rather get 20, you know, 80 percent of nothing, 80 percent of an award, than get nothing, then have to fight back 10 more years and get it. Of course it makes the money different. You know, that's my personal opinion. I mean other people can. Then you know that everybody's got their own opinion. What do you think right? What do you think about agents? Do you think it's beneficial?

Ray Cobb: 13:23

well, I think today now not necessarily when, when I won my case, which is now 15 years ago, but I think today, with the way the va is handling things, I think you have no choice. I mean, I've seen guys this the last two weeks been denied. Their denial letter comes in. It's not the type, it's just a bunch of cut and paste and garbage that doesn't even relate to their case and they don't even give them the reason as to why they didn't qualify or why they were denied. And when you get into those type of things, that's when you need to reach out and get you an agent to represent you, and I agree with you, it needs to be someone that's a part of NOVA. They'll take 20%. I think that's a good ongoing type thing. Don't go out and get some of these guys, like we call them, long sharks, you know, or anyway, they come up and they try to say well, we charge six months back pay. That's not right. You know you do a 20 percent or 25 percent based on how hard it is and how much work's got to be done. But you know, even just the last 48 hours, I've had two guys call me that have been denied and yet they don't know why they're denied because they really didn't tell them. And I had one guy call me and he had been reduced from 70% to 50% and he had to go to the field service office. And folks, they're going to try to talk you out of getting an adage. They're going to try to talk you. You know they want to handle it but they're not trained to handle it. They really don't know what in the world is going on. One localist told the gentleman today that he didn't need to file an appeal. Well, let me tell you something If you really know that you have that condition, there's no reason you cannot file, shouldn't file, not an appeal, but a file for a hearing. And if you were saying, oh, appeal it, appeal it, it'll be faster. Hearings are taking two or three years, yeah, but with a hearing it's not reduced. Until you have that hearing, if it's reduced at all, and if you've got the medical documentation that your condition still exists and is the same or has worsened, then you go and you ask for a hearing. I don't care if it takes two years or not.

Ray Cobb: 16:00

The gentleman I was working with today the reason that it looks like he has not seen a VA doctor in over a year. So they assumed that he was doing better and that's why they reduced him. But he has been seeing local doctors and paying for it out of his company's insurance. Now that brings up another topic when it comes to this type of thing. Now that brings up another topic when it comes to this type of thing, because the VA today not when I was there, but the VA today they are not allowed to take an outside doctor's information and put it into your medical records unless that doctor had been approved and gone through the VA community care program. So this guy has gone to a doctor, he's gone to an orthopedic, he's gone to a chiropractor, has letters from both. He sees a chiropractor twice a month. He's on a bunch of medication.

Ray Cobb: 16:57

But they reduced him because he had not been going to see a VA doctor. So the county service officer today told him no, no, you don't need a hearing, you need to appeal. He doesn't need to appeal because when you do an appeal you cannot add any additional evidence. So if that evidence is going to the other doctor, he's not in his file. He can't submit it. He can only submit it if he does a supplemental claim. You can't do it. He can only submit it, if he does a supplemental claim.

J Basser: 17:27

You can't do it in hlr, you know, you know. I mean, you don't have to choose hlr, you can go straight to supplemental. Yeah, that's your choice right, exactly, exactly.

Ray Cobb: 17:35

So you know. My instruction to him was to ask for a hearing to start with. It's taking three to four years to be able to have the hearing. He will stay at that same level from then. And she told him well, if you lose, you're going to have to pay it back, I told him. I said don't worry about it, because you got all the documentation and you'll have more by the time you get to that hearing.

Ray Cobb: 17:57

And the conditions go to worsen by then. I said so don't you know? Don't worry about paying anything back. And even if you do, the maximum that they can hold is 25% of what you're receiving. I don't know if you were aware of that or not, but in any case, let's say he's receiving $500. They can only keep back $100 a month until the bill is caught up in breaking even. So there's more reasons to go for the hearing. Your chances are better to win and you can present the evidence to which, if you do an appeal or if you do some other type of a higher level review, you're not allowed to add any additional evidence. But you can walk in there and show them the doctor's notes, you can show them x-rays, you can show them doctor's appointments and you can have the doctor's write a 4138, a letter of statement of what your condition is, and you can present all of that at the hearing. And you cannot do that if you file due to the other. Yeah, go ahead.

J Basser: 19:14

Go ahead, Ray. I'm motioning something else. Go ahead.

Ray Cobb: 19:18

I'm just keeping track of your questions.

Ray Cobb: 19:21

Okay, so it's going to benefit him because he gets to stay at his existing level and he gets to go back and have a hearing and present evidence where he was seeing his chiropractor and a local orthopedic in order to prove that his condition has worsened. Now, what I did recommend to him he has a primary care doctor. She sees her twice a year. I said you need to get your primary care doctor to send you for evaluation with an orthopedic to see if anything could be done to help that knee or see a physical therapy or you know where they may send you to physical therapy or something. I said you need that in your records, in your VA records, because when they're looking at this they're not going to pay any attention to any outside records. They're only going to pay attention to VA records and I think you and I discussed the other day between us that they have about 10 to 15 minutes on each claim that they work. So in my case I have more than 6,000 pages of notes. You know, not tests, not other things, just notes. There's no way in the world they can go back and read those notes or search that many notes and make a decision in 10 or 15 minutes. So my recommendation to him today and keep that in mind, guys.

Ray Cobb: 20:47

But to go back to what you were saying earlier, john, I feel that in today's world that it's best that if you've been denied that the next thing you need to do is get you a good agent and quit fooling with it and appeal it.

Ray Cobb: 21:06

You can go from a straight denial straight to the board. You don't have to ask for a higher level of view. You don't have to ask for any of that. You can appeal directly to the board, and I'm not for sure that's you know you might. Here's what an agent can do that you and I couldn't do. Here's what an agent can do that you and I couldn't do, or what a regular veteran can't do. An agent can call the regional office and talk to the manager over that section and if he sees where some things have been done incorrectly, they can get that manager to agree that those were done incorrectly. Now you need to file a supplemental claim because that manager is aware of it and it's going to go a lot faster than going before the board. But if you haven't got an agent, you cannot do that.

J Basser: 22:02

So yeah, I've been on my soapbox for a little while here well, listen, guys, if you do get a proposed reduction, okay, keep in mind, depends on how long you held that rating. That didn't include increases. I'm talking about the original rating. Say, say you had hypertension and uh. Or let's go heart disease and say you've had the 30 percent of heart disease for 20 years. Okay, so you filed an increase 10 years ago and got an increase of 60 percent. Well, that 30 percent increase, that can be reduced even though you haven't 10 years.

J Basser: 22:40

So there's protections for ratings involved. I mean 20 years. They cannot reduce you for your rating unless there's been fraud involved, and that I've hardly ever seen it happen. It does happen. Basically, there's a 10 year protection too. You know, one exam is not going to get you reduced. You have to do several exams. But in his situation Ray's talking about this guy saw outside providers and the VA didn't have documentation. So I'd been to a VA provider so. So they looked at it and did a little review on him. Now did he file a claim, ray, or an increase or something like that, to get his file to be opened back up, or was it just an automatic review?

Ray Cobb: 23:17

Yeah, here's another thing he did. He filed a claim for ruptured disks military connected. Now, when he was in the Marine Corps he actually jumped off the back of a tank and hurt his back, sprained his back, twisted it, and he's been having problems ever since. Now here was a catcher they sent and in their remarks of that they said there's no evidence that this is military connected. However, he has his medical records from when he was in the Marine Corps and he was actually put on bed rest for five days during that time before he was allowed to return to light duty for two weeks before he went to heavy duty. And all this, along with the x-rays and everything is in his medical records while he was still on active duty.

Ray Cobb: 24:13

So how they said that this wasn't related to active duty is just flack. They didn't look for it.

J Basser: 24:21

How long did they have the rating? You know?

Ray Cobb: 24:24

Well, he hadn't had that rating, he had never turned in that rating, the previous rating he had had for four or five years. He had never turned in this new rating for his back.

J Basser: 24:35

Now listen, guys, if you have a rating that's not permanent total, what they're going to do is they're going to schedule you a re-examination after like five years and they're going to send you back for a re-examination. They're going to open your file and look at it your department probably won't do it unless you initiate the claim and ask for an increase or something else and it opens up your entire record to be reviewed. I've seen a lot of reductions based off that. Now, this guy he needs to go ahead and do a supplemental claim. This guy he needs to go ahead and do a supplemental claim.

J Basser: 25:05

He don't need to be in the queue for an HLR because HLR, you're not allowed to add evidence. He does not need to go to the Board of Veteran Appeals and do a direct docket review because, again, you cannot add evidence. If you do that, you're just. You know you're out of luck, but you're going to have to either go through a full board hearing or a full board panel, or you're going to have to do a supplemental claim. You can't have that evidence in the supplemental, you can send it in and that will probably fix the problem, right, uh and that should be a lot faster process.

J Basser: 25:35

Um, remember that guys. Uh, if you're doing high level review hlr you guys especially you guys are especially the han solos that are doing solo If you have to go to appeal process and you want to do an HLR, make sure you got a pretty tight claim. You can't submit no new evidence or they're going to use the same exact evidence they denied you on you know that case. If you got new evidence, go supplemental lane. If you've got all your evidence, you think you're going to win. I would skip the whole process and go straight to the direct docket review. That's the fastest BVA route, even though sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

J Basser: 26:13

I had a failure here back last year and we're still at the court, so we'll see how that goes and I'll let everybody know. But that's kind of an issue Like again, your agents and your BSOs that are accustomed to doing this should be able to help you and advise you what to do and tell you what's what you know. They should be able to help you. It's OK, we have to do this. You know that's something I can explain to you. It kind of gets both doors back in the water because if you got a VA claim. You got one on the water. You're going to go around circles back in the water because if you got a va, claim you get one on the water.

Ray Cobb: 26:48

You're gonna go around circles. That's true, right, yeah, you're right. And one thing that you know it always depends, as you will know, as to where you live. There's some places where your vso's are very, very good. They not only go through their straight training, they a lot of times will actually get some information and do some reading and research on their own, and those type of guys are very helpful. I know that we have one like that in bedford, county tennessee. Uh, he's very, very good, he's very thorough and he knows what he's doing. But he has learned it on his own and seeing what has taken place over the years.

Ray Cobb: 27:32

Then you have others that follow the direct words that are put into their mouth from the state service office and say, like we're not supposed to take anyone over 100 percent, or well, you don't need to appeal, you need to do this. You know you need to ask for a higher level review first. That's the way to go, those type of information. Let me ask you if you got somebody just think about this If you are working for somebody and you make a decision and somebody outside of your office calls your boss and says you know you need to review this guy. He's not doing his job. Don't you think that manager is going to support you first Unless it's pretty obvious in Blayton but that manager is going to support you so with that high-level review.

Ray Cobb: 28:37

All you're doing is going to the manager of the guy that made the decision. Now, that's a high-level reviewer.

J Basser: 28:46

They've got a system, now right, that's a high-level reviewer. Yeah, they may talk about it. They've got a system now right, You've got a high-level reviewer. They move it to a different total, different RO. Now they go to Jacksonville or somewhere in Florida and somewhere else. They don't stay in the same RO anymore. It goes to a high-level reviewer, which basically is a DRO.

Ray Cobb: 29:11

That's the process now, but, if I understand correctly, that individual calls the agent that made that decision and discusses where and why he came up with that decision before he returns it, or changes it Right.

J Basser: 29:20

And that situation you guys, the DROs are pretty. I mean, they're pretty good, you know. And fortunately I mean that situation, the DROs are pretty good, fortunately. I'm just going through the process myself, but they moved to another location and kicked in a bunch more exams. That process is not too bad, even if you go supplemental and you get denied a supplemental claim. You can kick that back over to an HLR. The DRO will look at it again. If you follow me, you know some people. They see the wait times at the Board of Veterans Appeals and they shriek it's six, seven years before I can get there, you know. And what's going to happen? You're going to go through there as a board and you're going to wait six or seven years, right? All of a sudden, boom, it's your hearing day.

J Basser: 30:10

Yeah they're going to defer it back to the region anyway. You're going to get a remand. Yeah, they're going to remand it back, guess where. They're going to remand it back to Same guy that did it before, if he's still employed. That's what we call the hamster wheel. Ain't that right, ray? That's it, that's a hamster wheel. You're like a little mouse in a cage.

J Basser: 30:31

Back in the day, before we started dealing with the AMA, we had the old appeals and old legacy system. You had the BBA and then you had the appeals management center. They'd send the claim over there and they'd remand it there. They'd stack them up in this room right there and they'd sit there and all of a sudden they would take it from the Pills management center and they'd take it back and forth to the BBA. It's just like they're throwing baseball.

J Basser: 30:56

I know one guy was back and forth 12 different times. You believe that 12 times I do? I do yeah. Of course you believe that 12 times I do, I do yeah. And so of course they. You know I mean it's. They say it's improved tremendously.

J Basser: 31:15

I'm going to say the wait time has actually never improved. As a matter of fact, they've gotten worse With, especially when they piled on the PACT Act and the Blue Water Navy Act and all this other stuff and all these other veterans came into the limelight. Then they came up with a directive. They had to. You know they wanted to do all the legacy things first before the AMA stuff got done. And I know a couple guys are still waiting on board decisions from legacy claims, you know. So it can be a pain in the butt Excuse my French, but the derriere, I'll say it that way but your agent again, or your BSO, should be able to help you with this and advise you correctly on where it's laying to go. Now. The third group that we haven't talked about yet is say you don't want to use an agent, say you don't want to use a PSO, say somebody told you well, I use this attorney here man.

J Basser: 32:10

He's a high-powered guy, he's going to help me out. Yeah, take care of it, send him your stuff. Well, you have that option to use an attorney. When you contact the attorney, first thing they do they look at your claim. They can look at it. You give them permission to look, they'll look at it. They can pull it up. They give them three or four days to look at it and they'll contact you. I've seen this so many times. Everybody gets excited Well, I've got this attorney, I'm going to get this attorney.

J Basser: 32:40

All of a cannot represent you at this time, and it's not because you got a bum claim or a bad claim, you know, and there's attorneys out there left and right, believe me. You file a case to the Federal Circuit, to the CAVC or CDAC court. You're going to be bombarded. Your mailbox is going to be bent over double with mailers from the attorney groups. I'm talking. Everyone in the country is going to be bent over double with mailers from the attorney groups. I'm talking. Everyone in the country is going to be emailing you or sending you stuff and you talk to them, see if they want to help you out.

J Basser: 33:10

But attorneys have an issue to, where a lot of them look at the whole thing. They look at the big picture. You know agents don't really look at the big picture because they know they're going to get 20% or whatever. Well, attorneys usually get 33% of stuff. You know that's what they do, but it depends too. Now, if this is a BBA case, yeah, you know, you see, that stuff Court's a little bit different. Now they look at all your stuff and they look at how far back you can go and they say, well, I don't know If this guy wins, he's only going to get so much money and worth our while doing this. You know, and it happens Basically. We call it cherry picking. You ever heard of that term, ray?

Ray Cobb: 33:50

Yeah, that's a term. I like to look, you know the other thing on that same.

Ray Cobb: 33:57

You know, going on with that, you got to remember that attorney. He may be doing some things, not just with VA. He may be doing some things with Social Security. He may be working with an insurance company. He may be on their payroll as an advisor. There's other things that he's doing. So, unlike an agent, he probably is not going to pay a whole lot of attention to your case unless it's pretty old and he thinks you're going to receive a considerable amount of back pay. So that's the kind of way that kind of falls into Just be aware of that.

J Basser: 34:45

It reminds me of the movie I filmed back in Tennessee years ago with Matt Damon and Danny DeVito. That's this young guy who was an attorney and his interest couldn't approve this guy's treatment for leukemia and he died. He got him sued. Devito was not really an attorney, he hadn't passed the bar exam yet, but he was trying. He was the front man. Every time there was a wreck. He'd go to the wreck because he had the police radio and he'd be at the hospital waiting on the guy to get there.

Ray Cobb: 35:15

They got those all over California and Florida, don't they?

J Basser: 35:19

Everywhere, man Everywhere. But that's one thing. You can find an attorney to help you, you know. I mean, you got a lot of your groups out there, you know, but it's just up to them whether they say they'll represent you or not. You know, it's kind of a crapshoot. Now say you get past the BVA and you get a BVA denial. Okay, who do you select as a representative then? Okay, you do the same thing with court. You do pay the dollar figure or whatever, and they'll do it and they'll send you stuff by the time you find you an attorney. They are.

J Basser: 35:57

There are a few okay, accredited VA appeals agents. I know two. Both are pretty good friends of mine Mr Alex Graham. He's an accredited VA appeals agent, non-attorney practitioner, so he can practice at the court. He's pretty good at what he does too. Alex comes on the show all the time and just listen to him. You guys really enjoy it.

J Basser: 36:20

That one is Wes McCauley out of Georgia. Same thing, you know they both lined up with the law group and they both, you know they're pretty good. You know they're both on the. You know they know what they're doing. Wes is a young guy but he's hell on wheels. He's my friend, I know him pretty well, you know, and he's good at what he does. We've had them both on the show. We'll name you more often, right, ray? There you go. No, I'm just kidding. Anyhow, they can actually do the same thing. So if they're your representative, they can help you in court. Same thing they have an attorney working with them, so you're not losing any power to your claim. Maybe he can explain a little better. It's always good to get help. Do not go to court by yourself Because, they said, the man who represents himself in court is a fool. That's what the old saying is, right, ray?

Ray Cobb: 37:19

I've heard that all my life.

J Basser: 37:22

Yep, and you've been around a few years Longer with me.

Ray Cobb: 37:26

I have more than you.

J Basser: 37:28

Okay. So you get that situation done. You go to court. You know the court's pretty cool, I mean, you'll get to sit there and they'll file it and they'll file. Your group will file a brief and the VA will file a brief and you file a rebuttal and they file a rebuttal and you file a secondary brief and they file a brief. Then you file a rebuttal and they file a rebuttal. Then you file a secondary brief and they file another brief. It's all a bunch of briefs. They got more briefs than this whole mess and a bag of Hanes underwear. So that's what it is and it's a negotiation. You know they try to figure something out and they try to work it out before it goes to see the judge and the judge will make a decision. In my case, the judge must make a decision and I know I'm right, so it doesn't matter. But that's the fun part about the court. That same thing.

J Basser: 38:14

Get back on the main subject for representation of your agents. Make sure you like your agents and things like that and you guys get along. I think the better you get along and the more that you guys keep each other abreast of what's going on. Make sure that you're on the same page If you're on the same page and you guys know what's going on and the agent is willingly working your claim and he knows what to look at. Or the VSO he's got access to VBMS. He keeps you abreast of what's going on. Hey, you got a decision yesterday. You're not going to see it just yet, but you got denied. We're working on it right now to see what we can do.

J Basser: 38:49

Before you even get on to VAgov and look at it, or before you get the letter of mail probably 10 or 15 days ahead of time, you already know what you've got Living gadgets better today than what it was 20 years ago. 20 years ago you'd go out to the mailbox and drop that full Form 526 in. We're talking about that stack of thick paper, all your stuff on hand written out. You stick that sucker in a big envelope, you take it, you know, and you put it in the mailbox. It sends it off. Personally I wouldn't do it anyway, but you know some people do that. It's on Friday. On Monday afternoon, before the mailman runs, you put your rocking chair on the porch and you sit there with binoculars and start watching the mailbox. We call that bird dog in the mailbox. I've seen people do that for months at a time before they got their paperwork. Had you, ray.

Ray Cobb: 39:41

I have. Matter of fact, I know it took you a while, but before I won my first claim, my first decision was eight years, yeah, and several appeals and several. Finally, back then, we had a traveling medical board and I ended up going to the traveling medical board in order to win my first case of Agent Orange exposure at Fort McKillop, alabama.

J Basser: 40:15

You won number two, Ray.

Ray Cobb: 40:18

Yeah, number two in the country.

J Basser: 40:20

I called him number two. I won at.

Ray Cobb: 40:21

Fort McKillop. I call him number two. He won at Fort McClellan.

J Basser: 40:24

The first veteran to be awarded for aging orange exposure based on exposure inside the continent of the United States, Mr James Cripps. He was a game warden down in Fort Jackson. Is that where he's at? He's in Fort Jackson, wasn't he? No, Fort Gordon, Fort Gordon, okay, Fort Gordon, Okay.

J Basser: 40:44

Ray was number two. He was awarded out of Fort McFarland and James was a game warden. Ray was a photographer and they had a little Vietnamese-looking village. I guess they bought and they were practicing you know doing stuff in that village. Guess they bought and they were practicing you know doing stuff in that village and they were spraying it all the time. And that's how he got. That's how he got that in training. And so he got it and he had to go to bva to win his and, uh, he had a bad agent guys, bad rep, and one word just about caused him to not get it. They were sitting there in the hearing and the judge asked directly are you talking about presumptive exposure or are you talking about direct exposure? That representative just about said presumptive and that would have stopped it right there, said presumptive and that would have stopped it right there.

Ray Cobb: 41:45

Yeah, if James and I had not spoken up, we both, at the same time, said no direct exposure, Because what I had to prove was the old saying that they had in journalism, which I had a background in, was who, what, when, where, why and how? And that's what I had to prove with direct exposure in order to win the case. I had no choice but to do that, just because there was no evidence that Agent Orange was being used at Fort McKellips except for those of us that actually saw it used, because they kept it pretty well under wrap.

J Basser: 42:28

We didn't use Agent Orange outside Vietnam, Ray.

Ray Cobb: 42:31

Right, I know that I've heard that so long, but if it hadn't have been for a captain. When I was about to photograph one of the exercises at that village, the captain said oh, we backed up. They're fixing to spray Agent Orange and that's some bad stuff. So we backed up on the hillside. These two guys came in wearing three tanks. Both of them were and they were spraying on the ground in the area of and then it was my job to get to the angle and to get photographs that that captain wanted. It was my job to go down and walk through the area where I was sprayed and it got on my pants leg, it got on my shoes and it was obvious that it was there. I just didn't know what it was, nor did I know the effect it would have back then.

J Basser: 43:36

That leads me to a good point. Ray, you go for vets, you know, I mean there's a lot of you out there, listen up If you have got an issue and say are going for air that, but you never went to the sandbox or you know, play with Miss Kitty over there and so you were in training here and say you were exposed to a bunch of stuff. So you and you come down with something. You can't use the presumptive because you weren't over there. You can't use presumptive. You still got an avenue. You still file a direct service connection claim. Basically your burden's more. You have a harder burden to prove because you got to prove it, but you can do it. It doesn't tell you you can't file a claim. You just make sure that you got to understand just from presumptive and basically direct service connected.

J Basser: 44:30

And if, say, you file a claim for a presumptive issue and you meet the criteria, the VA schedules you for a C&P exam and they start looking at because there's different C&P exams You've got C&P exams for a level of severity and you've got initial C&P exams they start asking crazy questions about where you're at and things like that and what you're exposed to and things like that. Is it service connected? It could be a no-no Because if you have a presumptive condition, I think they can concede that exposure on there and do a level of severity. And I've seen a lot of that stuff challenged lately. I've seen some crazy stuff, a lot of it's confusion and things like that, I think. But we don't want everything to be as discombobulated as it can be and sometimes it gets pretty bad shape. Remember, even though you weren't in the sandbox or the same thing, you weren't in Vietnam and you exposed the agent orange, you can direct service connection Any agent orange issue direct service connection.

Ray Cobb: 45:36

That was an interesting part of mine, john. I remember I had diabetes. I've been diagnosed with diabetes. I was under the VA care because I didn't have any other medical insurance and I'm in the ER and my blood sugar is over 300. And they're trying to get it down. And this doctor comes in and he says where were you in Vietnam? I said I wasn't in Vietnam. He said you weren't in Vietnam. I said no. So he sat there and he flipped through several pages of my charts for the previous several months and he said well, let me ask you a question when did you get exposed to Agent Orange? I said oh, that's easy to answer. I was at Fort McKellar Mountain, bama, the chemical training center. It's not only where they trained officers how to use it, terry, and then they showed them how to use it and they used it. And he said well, you need to go back to Building 8 and file a claim for direct exposure to Agent Orange at Fort McKellips, alabama. As soon as I let you go, and that's what I did.

Ray Cobb: 46:46

I didn't really know what I was doing.

J Basser: 46:49

That's the guy that put you in touch with the Ashton City Terror no, that was another doctor up at Vanderbilt I had.

Ray Cobb: 47:02

My claim has been in for about, oh, I guess, three or four years and I've been denied the pill, denied the pill and everything. And I was up in Vanderbilt to talk with this doctor, who specialized in chemicals, and I tried to get which I did a letter stating that it was as likely as not that my diabetes was caused by my exposure to Agent Orange while on active duty at Fort McKellar. And that's exactly the way he worded it. Key words there was as likely as not. He wasn't going to say it did, but he wasn't going to say that it didn't.

Ray Cobb: 47:48

We left his office and he told me there's a guy I want you to talk with, his first name's, james. I'm going to try to get him to call you. Well, supposedly just a few minutes later he walked out and went down the elevator and the elevator door opened and there stood James and James says he grabbed him and brought him in and says you need to talk to this guy and gave him my name and my number and James called me that night and that's how we met and that's how it all got started.

J Basser: 48:19

A small world, isn't it? Yeah, a small world.

Ray Cobb: 48:23

Yeah, same place same time it happened mysteriously, mm-hmm.

J Basser: 48:27

Sure do. You wouldn't believe how it happens about Tennessee. I don't know why, but it does. I could tell you the story. You wouldn't believe it about Tennessee. But now here comes the million dollar question and I've been talking to James and other folks and this is also. Now here comes the million-dollar question. I've been talking to James and other folks and this is also in Tennessee. I'm not going to say names and locations but I know rumor has it. There's a certain VSO county VSO that gave some bad information out and done some nefarious stuff to a couple of vets, that didn't do the right submissions and held on to some claims and things like that, and from what I understand, that veteran's got him sued. Have you heard that, ray?

Ray Cobb: 49:15

Well, I have. I think that it was yesterday or maybe the day before yesterday. There's steps you've got to go through.

Ray Cobb: 49:24

First you have to notify them that they're going to be sued got to go through. First, you have to notify them that they're going to be sued and I think the day before yesterday the mayor in that county, around 4 o'clock when it was signed for, received a letter stating that they were about to be sued. But if they wanted to settle out of court they could with a certain figure, and now it's a wait to see what they're going to do. That happens all the time, but so far this is the first time I've known of that.

Ray Cobb: 49:59

from the beginning, this veteran and a couple of his buddies made sure that they kept proper documentation so that this VSO cannot say I didn't say that or I didn't do that, and I'm talking telephone call recordings and emails and other people that happen to be present when things were said. And most of the time that these VSOs they'll tell you something, like the gentleman today. When I asked him, I said was anybody in the office when this lady told you that you would be better off to file an appeal than to do a hearing? He said no, it's just her, and I and I just flat told her I wanted a hearing. He said no, it's just her, and I and I just flat-toed her I wanted a hearing. He said she finally filled out the paperwork but she tried three or four times to talk him out of it. Now I don't know really why. It's nothing off of her back. They get an idea. It's their thinking method or whatever.

J Basser: 51:08

They get an idea. You know it's their thinking method or whatever. They get an idea and it could be wrong. I mean, probably is.

J Basser: 51:14

But you know the human factor in dealing with claims has a big effect on veterans because you know they're only human, they're going to make mistakes. Now they blame a lot of stuff on mistakes and training and things like that, and you know I can see that as far as your sex period, I can't see it, you know. I mean, because you have a lot of mistakes, you're supposed to have a certain group in place to help alleviate those mistakes and improve, continuous improvement. That's the game, the name of the game for QS, right? So I think a lot of mistakes they make are, how do you say, evisceral type mistakes. I don't know if they're things that are blamed on, mistakes that are not, and you never know. I mean, of course you get the right people and do the right investigation and figure it out, but somebody's holding the purse strings. As I always say, it's not new money, it mean, of course you get the right people and do the right investigation, figure it out, but somebody's holding the purse strings. As I always say, it's not new money, it's. You know, just go to Indianapolis and count the cars on the racetrack as they come down around the track. They're going to get in accidents and things like that and they're going to get kicked off. Well, if somebody gets back on the track, everybody keeps the same number of cars. But you know it's the same thing. One gets off, one gets on. Only difference you're going to have is the DIC payments, things like that, you know. So I mean it's not totally new money, you know the smaller portion of it is. So I don't know what they're complaining about. You know, the only budget issues I've got to worry about is health care, the VBA budget, building, maintenance and things like that, you know, and other stuff, salaries.

J Basser: 52:51

But the veterans' money itself is a little bit different. So you understand that. You know they make a lot of money. They make a lot of money back on insurance too. You know charging co-pays and stuff like that, you know. Or charging veterans insurance for stuff and we'll do a show in a couple weeks on charging veterans for co-pays or car charging or insurance for service conditions too. They come to a halt. They don't do that.

J Basser: 53:17

I didn't use Agent Orders in the US either, but you know how that works out right. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-VA guys. I enjoy it. I've got a good team. It's actually not anti-VA guys. I mean you know I enjoy it. I've got a good team. It's actually helped me a lot. Va, I appreciate everything you do for me.

J Basser: 53:33

Some of these are old regional offices. I mean you know you can pick one. I like to see a grading scale that the veterans can have and have it publicized. You know, as the reviews of each regional office as far as what they do, and regional office as far as what they do, and you know timeless and things like that and how far behind they are. And you know their success rate and Social Security judges have it.

J Basser: 53:53

Why can't they? You know they've got their own little. You know they've got their own little bit of scale out there. You know this guy here is 22%, this guy here is 15%. You know how it is. So I mean it's all you know we've. So I mean it's all you know we got to keep score somehow, some way and we don't want to be treated like mushrooms. But remember something, guys In closing I want to say this you know you got the right to select representation, whether it be VSO agent, attorney or whatever you have the right to fire one too. Before you fire an attorney, be careful, because they got any skin in the game and they worked at it and you fire them, then they're still going to get their money, so you might be paying double. You know what I mean, right? I do so, remember that I'm serious.

J Basser: 54:44

You know these guys, they're very inept at getting their money and so, but you can fire them. I've done it. Of course, I haven't done anything since AMA, but I've had to get rid of some stuff and do some changes. My first claim I thought I did it myself. After I spent two years learning all the regs and reading and memorizing stuff, I won my first claim using my ref as a secretary. That's basically how I did it. You know, if I need something turned in, I'll let them do it. But the first go-around was kind of rough. I had a really, really, really good in there and it cost me 14 years, and so I still have a bad taste in my mouth about that bunch. I'll still never support them, and ray knows who I'm talking about.

J Basser: 55:34

Do what, you're right so do yeah, well, other than that, you know, that's one thing.

Ray Cobb: 55:41

going back to what you said earlier at the beginning of the show guys, I don't know how you can do it. If you're my age 76, you know I'm just learning still new stuff today about a computer. I have somebody helping me on my web page to getting it set up properly. But the most important thing is that you need to get yourself informed. You need to know about what your rights are. You need to know about what your rights are. You need to know about what your disability is. You need to make sure you have the diagnosis, not just what you say or what your wife says, but you have a doctor's medical diagnosis. You've got to put all of that together and understand how that works and understand the 38 CFR code that regulates your condition. And you also need to take another step further and understand what the percentage of disabilities that that should give you. Don't go thinking you're going to get a hundred percent from diabetes, because you won't. You're lucky if you get 60.

J Basser: 56:46

You're lucky to get 20.

Ray Cobb: 56:47

And you're very, very lucky for those few that get 100. So you know, usually the ones that get 100 are the ones who, if I remember, reading the 38 CFR code I haven't read it recently, but you have to be limited to your amount of movement after taking a minimum of three shots a day. So you have three shots a day. Then the doctor says you can't get up and move more than this or you can't do more than that extreme limitation activities.

J Basser: 57:25

Speaking of these, I fired a letter off today, guys, to our 6th District Congressman today. I wore that we did some stuff with the letter. I explained to him that if you have diabetes, especially if you're service-connected and you have hypoglycemic events and say you have a Dexcom or a Freestyle on your arm, it's got alarms on it and say you drop down at nighttime, whatever, and you drop down in the 30s or 40s or 50s or whatever, and the alarm goes off that allows your wife or significant other, spouse or caregiver to take care of you, to help get some food down your throat or drink or whatever, in order to bring it back up a little bit to get you going. Well, back in the day there was no alarms, okay, before these things came out. And what happened? The veteran would get lower and lower and lower and by the time they'd get there they'd be in the hospital. That's one of the criteria for the veteran for a higher rating for diabetes is hospitalizations because of hypoglycemia.

J Basser: 58:23

Now, with the devices that are here right now, the VA is saving a whole lot of money because they're saving a lot of veterans' lives not going to the hospital, it's keeping them out of the hospital, because if you're a service-next-free diabetes, the VA is probably going to pay for it, but if you're not in the hospital, they're not paying that big bill. They might have to go to the hospital. But so I sent a letter out to Congress. We're going to ask them to look into it and see if they can do something about it, because even though those things are keeping you out of the hospital, you're still having the issues. It's about health, not about numbers. You follow me.

Ray Cobb: 58:57

I do, because you and I both have experienced being awakened in the middle of the night.

J Basser: 59:04

Oh yeah, More than one time.

Ray Cobb: 59:05

We're talking dozens of times You're supposed to go get coke. Yeah. Yeah, it happens a lot so.

J Basser: 59:12

I mean best thing to do is don't ever get diabetes folks. You'd be a whole lot better off. And if your doc tells you that you're borderline diabetic, start eating right, stay away from it, because once you get it and once you get it bad we know a lot of folks that's got it bad, and I tell you what I mean. It's something new every week going on with these folks. You know what I mean, right, I do, especially when they start whittling you, especially when they start cutting off your feet and your toes. So listen, guys, we're out of time.

J Basser: 59:43

I do want to appreciate you listening and watching. I want to thank you for joining us. I do appreciate you listening and watching. I want to thank you for joining us. We'll be back again next week and we'll have another show. We'll probably bring an agent on, maybe James Cripps. We can bring him on and pick it. Bring a little bit. He's always interesting to listen to. I want to thank Ray for coming on and helping to be our co-host and I want to thank you guys for listening and we appreciate everything you do. And with that, this will be John J Basher, on behalf of Mr Ray cup. We'll be signing off for now.