Ray Cobb: 0:00

Blog Talk Radio.

J Basser: 0:03

It's time for the Expose that Podcast the Expose that Podcast discusses issues related to today's veteran To call into the show dial 515-605-9764. Now here's your host, john and Gerald. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. The Sold Exposed F podcast. Exposed F. We bring you the best information available when it comes to VA issues. Today we've got Mr Ray Cobb down in the great state of Tennessee right inside the saddle. How you doing, ray?

Ray Cobb: 0:39

I'm doing good today. How about you?

J Basser: 0:44

I'm doing wonderful, I'm really good and we have a little lady out of Ohio that is on here and she's going to have a conversation about your VA, disability benefits and working. So, bethany, how are you doing?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 0:57

today. I'm doing well, thank well, thank you.

J Basser: 1:02

Excited for today's show well, you know disabilities and if you're doing the old me, a disability cause a lot of problems. You know during work they've got to be some type of help that these companies are, even the government, can do for these veterans there. What's what? What's your take on it?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 1:22

so the main reason I wanted to talk about veterans with disabilities in the workplace is because I work in occupational health now and I see a lot of disabled veterans come in for their DOT physicals or they're trying to get a new job somewhere somewhere or they're having like a flare-up of their condition while they're at work. So there's a lot of interactions that I have with a disabled veteran in their current occupation. So, like I said, pre-employment, while they're employed, if they get work injuries, some of the occupations require medical surveillance programs where they have to get physicals every year to make sure that they meet the standards physically for their job or if in their employment, they need some type of reasonable accommodation due to their disability. So there's actually a lot in the occupational setting and the VA disability that crosses paths.

J Basser: 2:29

I thought, also crosses paths with other types of disability. You know, say, if you're a federal employee and you've got a service-connected disability but you're trying to move a rather large patient across the journey onto another one, you pop it back and that's another issue.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 2:46

Yes, it is, and a lot of times. So in that case, if that would happen, you would apply for a workers' comp claim because you had a worsening of your back condition due to your job duties, and then you would go fill that appropriate paperwork out and and apply for the workers comp, but facility won't follow the restrictions that are put on an individual by their doctor. So that's important to understand that if it's a work-related injury and you work for the government the federal government they are required to accommodate your work restrictions.

J Basser: 3:50

That's true. I've seen it too more than once. It's always a battle. It's always a battle, and I don't know if it's just the management or whatever doesn't understand, but it's always a battle, and I've seen it in good and seen it in bad.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 4:10

I definitely think that there's an education piece missing with the supervisors on not only the paperwork to fill out, but what it means to have somebody that you're supervising and they're injured and they have work restrictions. So there's lots of paperwork, there's a lot of rules you need to follow and I don't. I think that education piece is definitely missing.

J Basser: 4:39

I've actually seen cases where radiologists were actually hurting their backs and they'd have to retire from being radiologists because their doctor told them they could no longer wear a lid. Oh yeah, because of the weight, the weight and the tech's cake. I mean you know that's bad and once you get down with what you're doing, we'll dig into what do you call it. We'll dig into third disability and tell you how good that's going to be.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 5:20

So one thing I do want to explain a little bit is the pre-employment part. That's what I'm seeing the most when it comes to pre-employment and there's a little bit of difference between the private sector and then the government, the federal government. When an individual is looking to get a job in the private sector, that employer may require that they complete a physical and or what we call an HPE or human performance evaluation. So in the private sector they would show up to the clinic, they'd have a job description with the essential functions of that position. They would complete a history in physical and the provider is supposed to determine whether or not they are safe in that position with those medical conditions.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 6:13

And then the second part is the HPE is where they sit with a physical therapist or an occupational therapist and they will do certain lifts so that they can demonstrate that they're capable of doing it and capable of doing it properly. So when you go to lift the 50-pound bucket, is your body position correct? You have to demonstrate that for the physical therapist in order to pass that HPE. On the government side they don't do HPEs, they don't do functional capacity exams for employment. They do functional capacity exams for veterans. But when you go to apply for. Let's say you apply for the VA, you'll have a physical, a history and a physical that you have to complete, but you're not going to have to show that you can properly lift the 50 pounds or demonstrate proper body mechanics in order to pass your physical for that position. Am I making sense?

J Basser: 7:23

Yes.

Ray Cobb: 7:23

Yeah.

J Basser: 7:25

Entirely. Yeah, I understand it.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 7:28

So the civilian side, I think, has, in my opinion, a little bit more logic. Because you want to as an employer, you want your people to do the proper body mechanics if they're lifting those heavy weights, to prevent injuries.

J Basser: 7:42

The.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 7:42

VA has different other programs that they do, but it's not part of their pre-employment process. Do you think that's?

J Basser: 7:50

individual proof Right.

Ray Cobb: 7:55

I got a question about the private sector that is looking at a veteran with a disability, looking at a veteran with a disability when they go through those additional proofs of being able to do the work. Is that because of the workman's comp that that civilian employer has to have, or possibly his medical insurance? Does that tie in with that where the federal government, the VA or any other federal agency does not have those type of restrictions or insurance? Could that be a part of that? And I'm speaking from personal workman's comp. Before I was in the VA system that I had personally and there were some questions afterwards. They made a big, I guess I want to say a complaint the fact that my doctor, after having some knee surgery, stated that I had to sit on a bench or a stool from that time on behind the counter, which I was the only one that had to do that. I was working in a camera store and I know they were kind of upset with that.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 9:27

That's too much weight on my knees.

Ray Cobb: 9:27

I know they were kind of upset with that.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 9:30

So those fine details for HPE, the performance portion and the accommodations will vary from state to state, vary from state to state. So some states will pay out. The workers' comp program will pay out for so many days or so many hours of work lost because of your workers' comp injury. Some states will require that the employer continues to pay the employee if they are out of work because of a work-related injury and some of the insurance programs may require education or that body mechanics class for certain positions. So that will vary by state.

Ray Cobb: 10:17

Okay.

J Basser: 10:17

Wouldn't that still be considered a reasonable accommodation?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 10:25

In the private sector? Yes, that would be reasonable. Accommodations tend to fall with positions or employers that are equal opportunity, equal employment opportunity providers. So the private sectors are a little bit different.

J Basser: 10:42

The VA really has to too. But I was trying to get on to the regulations for human resources. I wonder if the federal government has written at OPM and has passed along each agency. I don't know if it's direct with VA or not, but that's just a question I'd like to get into and see what they do. You know, because OPM does a lot of stuff on this.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 11:09

I know that for reasonable accommodations there is a dedicated individual and human resources for all of those claims. And in the occupational let's say we have a veteran that's working at the VA and they're having issues due to a non-work-related injury, some other medical condition they may go to employee health there in the office in order to get like immediate protection protection let's say that their back is out and they're having issues with lifting For a short period of time that employee health provider can place restrictions to protect them. But they also have to because it's not work-related. They also have to pursue protection and other means. So in those cases, if they are seeking reasonable accommodations or it's FMLA or it's something related to that I always push them to the union because that's where they're going to get their most support.

J Basser: 12:21

That's true, that is true.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 12:29

Have you ever butted heads with these people? Oh my gosh. I, honestly, in the settings that I'm in because I've worked both civilian sector and the government, the supervisors I've had issues with because they want their employee back to work and there's been times when this guy just got out of surgery 12 hours ago.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 12:57

He is not going to be sitting at a desk tomorrow morning, I'm sorry. So I mean they can get that has happened. They can get because it reflects on their OSHA logs and their occupational safety logs. And in the private sector if you have too many work loss days, like you have employees that are out because of injury, it affects their numbers at the end of the year and they can actually receive penalties from OSHA, monetary penalties from OSHA. On the government side they haven't done that yet. Osha does not issue monetary fines and fees related to a poor OSHA log. I think it's going to come down the pipe sooner or later, but there's different motivation on each side of the employment side. So from the private sector you have that OSHA log and that monetary push. From the federal side you don't necessarily have that.

J Basser: 14:04

I can see that. I can see that. I can see that clearly.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 14:11

So I tend to protect the patient because at the end of the day that's who my duty belongs to, and if I don't protect that patient then that's a medical malpractice thing. So I tend to get along with the union.

J Basser: 14:31

I don't have any troubles with them. Well, I mean, unions have a purpose in a lot of areas and kind of like here out in the private sector. Yeah, you might be really you know, but I've seen a lot of unions in the scope of the government itself. You know they have GE and some other ones and I've seen a lot of crazy stuff with unions. So you know, it's probably a pretty even scale. You've got the good and the bad in both of them.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 15:00

I haven't had to deal with some of those private big companies. I take that back. There's one big, one big one that I've dealt with and I can't say a whole lot about that because I don't want to get myself in trouble.

J Basser: 15:21

I don't know the biggest company near you. I believe I know which one it is is, but I'm not going to say nothing maybe that's a conversation after, after we're off conversation in a private sense, not on national radio. Folks, you think you're going to get the good. I don't think so. Today we're going to stay on the air, right?

Ray Cobb: 15:44

I don't think so today.

J Basser: 15:51

We won't stay on the air, right? We don't want to come back. What are they going to do If a person does get injured on the job? It's a workers' comp issue, right, but what does the patient have to do? The person have to do? I mean, they've got to follow a workers' comp claim I guess they do it at their facility, but they've got to get medical treatment and get a diagnosis of what's going on, right Because workers' comp will deny you a humanitarian heartbeat if you don't have a diagnosis.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 16:25

Correct. Most private companies are contracted with other, contracted with medical facilities, in order to have their employees treated as soon as they can. So if somebody you know hurts their knee and they report it to their supervisor, normally they have a policy in place and they say well, here is your authorization, slip, go to this facility or this medical clinic and they will evaluate you. Now, the occupational health provider. Their job is to listen to the patient and their story and understand the mechanism of the injury. What happened, what trauma occurred, what exposure occurred, what activity that you were doing related to your job that caused this issue issue.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 17:26

If during that examination they think it's not work-related or something not related to your functional duties or your day-to-day duties, then they document that in the record and they communicate that with their patient. So normally they'll say, or I would say you know, I know you're in a lot of pain. I understand that you're experiencing numbness and tingling in your feet. You've been at this job for a few weeks and this may be causing a flare-up of your condition. I want you to understand that the underlying factor here is probably something else. So workers' comp most states will go back to baseline, meaning that if, let's say somebody's radiculopathy was flared up because of their job duties, they will cover the medical expense for them to go back to their baseline medical expense for them to go back to their baseline.

J Basser: 18:33

Does that make sense? Am I making sense? Give an example of a baseline.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 18:37

Bethany. So I had a patient who had a left rotator cuff tear in their shoulder and this was 15 years ago. Well, now they're doing work, they're lifting boxes and as they're lifting one of their boxes it kind of tips or tilts on them or they get it caught on something else and it kind of jerks them in the wrong way. Then they can get a tendonitis in that left shoulder. So while they have an underlying injury or issue with that left shoulder, we now have an irritation of that muscle structure. So now we're going to treat that tendonitis until it's gone. We're not going to fix the underlying issue, we're not going to fix the rotator cuff issue, but we're able to treat the tendonitis or the muscle strain where their pain level was where it's, where it was when they first started.

J Basser: 19:39

Understand, understand it. You know I'm not going to go back to the root cause of the issue, but they're going, I understand. I understand I'm not going to go back to the root cause of the issue, but I'm going to try to fix what you've got going on to keep you going Correct. A little bit of PT there, I guess, for the guy huh.

Ray Cobb: 19:56

Or lady.

J Basser: 19:57

Yes, okay. Well, you picked a pretty good subject because shoulder injuries are hard to come back from, especially if you have, you know, rotator cuffs, flat toes, stuff like that, major surgeries. If you've got that type of issue, you might want to consider retirement. I'm serious. Shoulders, I mean you know what are you going to do. I mean that will come back. You're never going to be 100%. You know, and I've seen more shoulder injuries. Take out good baseball pitchers tired of them from baseball because they couldn't do it. Even players, you know they get a shoulder injury and they're just about done. So even if you're, you know if you're lifting stuff, you know they get a shoulder injury and they're just about done. So even if you're, you know if you're lifting stuff, you know moving and things like that, you know, and you have your shoulder injury like that, it's hard on you too, even though it's not the actual fluid movement of your shoulder that causes the issue. It's a sudden jerking motion that causes the tears, it's true. It's pretty sad so.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 21:06

I had a.

J Basser: 21:08

Go ahead.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 21:11

Shoulder injuries can be difficult too because they can get frozen and sometimes there's not a rhyme or a reason for you to get a frozen shoulder. And so I had a patient who couldn't lift their shoulder, really 45 degrees away from their body. They couldn't lift it, but they were trying to get this job. That job required them to have this is a civilian, the civilian sector but they had to do their HPE and he didn't pass because he wasn't able to lift the boxes up like they require for that human performance evaluation. So another shoulder example and where that disability may play a role in trying to get a job.

J Basser: 21:57

So what do you do if you look at a patient and one of their shoulders is about four inches taller than the other one? You've seen that scenario.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 22:07

I've seen it more for scoliosis but not for the shoulder Like the scoliosis will make their shoulders offset.

J Basser: 22:16

You see one offset. Send a pertest x-ray as soon as possible, do you have a story behind that. Elevated shoulder is the first sign of diaphragm paralysis.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 22:33

Oh yes.

J Basser: 22:34

Yeah, that's probably a more severe, serious issue than workers' comp. You know what I mean.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 22:45

Yeah, you know, one thing I want to make sure that we talk about here is I'll have some of the veterans with disabilities come in for a pre-employment exam and they'll sit down and they'll fill out their history form and on their history form they put every injury, they put every symptom, they put every limitation they have on a bad day on those forms.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 23:18

Now I have to determine whether they can meet these functional. You know the essential functions of that job and now they're telling me every detail of why they can't do that job. So that already puts me in a difficult position, because I didn't ask you about the percentage of your knee disability. You put it on your form without me asking it's not a question in there. You put it on your form without me asking it's not a question in there. But now that you've disclosed all the limitations related to your knee condition, I don't think you're going to be climbing stairs, ladders and on scaffolding with those symptoms. So I see there has to be like a happy medium when you're filling out your history form and you're trying to get a job. Should you answer the questions honestly? Yes, but you don't need to tell me how many bowel movements you're having every day, because that's not a requirement.

J Basser: 24:18

That would be a TMI situation.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 24:20

Folks don't get it, it happens all the time. That's quite comical though it happens all the time.

J Basser: 24:29

Okay, that's quite comical though. Okay, well, we know this and that you know. Still, it's a catch-22 for the guy. If he's got all those issues, he's trying to go to work, there's something wrong.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 24:46

The main purpose for that pre-employment exam is to understand that you're capable of performing the essential functions If you're not required to climb ladders, stand on scaffolding, climb stairs and you're in a sedentary position. Your knee condition is not going to play a part in a sedentary position, so you really want to understand those essential functions and what requirements you have to meet in order to qualify for that position from a health standpoint.

J Basser: 25:30

How does the VA handle this stuff?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 25:38

So there's actually a legal standard that the provider has to determine, and the provider has to determine if the individual is able to perform the essential duties of the job without posing a direct threat to their health, their safety or the health and safety of others. So I know that's long, but if there's any condition that is where a flare-up or the condition, the limitation is imminent and it's going to climb on scaffolding and lift 45 pounds, that is not a safe environment for them or the people around them. If I have a 70-year-old male with active arthritis and uncontrolled pain, part of his essential function is to drive and operate machinery. There's an imminent risk of injury to themselves or to the others around them.

J Basser: 27:05

Okay.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 27:08

Okay, I will say too that it does.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 27:12

It makes it difficult and it's a case-by-case basis and the person doing the exam for the VA position may not be the person who ultimately clears that person for employment. So the agency medical officer for the facility has to sign off on that individual's history and examination. So if, let's say, I do the physical and I think it looks fine, I put it in a pretty package, I hand it over to the agency medical officer, the agency medical officer can review it and say you know, I don't feel safe with this individual, I feel like they're a direct harm to themselves, then they can fail the physical. So not the person that's always doing the exam is the person that's going to make the ultimate decision.

J Basser: 28:08

I see that that again is a lot different, you know, especially with the VA and the way they do things. I don't know if you get injured on the job, I guess you have to go to employee health and see the employee health person first, I guess, and then they go from there. It's kind of a catch-22 there, though it depends on what your job is and what you do. You know everybody's job is different, so their requirements are different, so it's up to you guys to figure it out.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 28:42

Each facility is supposed to have an injury policy that they are to follow and recommend. Now I know our local VA. You need medical care but you get to choose. So if you're going to go to your own doctor, have them fill out this form. If you're going to go to employee health, have them fill out the form. So the form is the same, it just needs to be filled out. They don't care where you go.

J Basser: 29:09

I guess it goes back to HR and they get with your management and try to do reasonable accommodations in order to keep the ads, which again, that depends on what your job was and what you do, you know. So if you work the BA is a X-ray tech and hurt your back you can't wear a lid then I don't think they can accommodate much unless you can run an MRI machine or something.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 29:33

So it's a little different with reasonable accommodations. Typically those reasonable accommodations come in when it's a permanent issue, if it's like an acute injury, workers' comp will prevail, so workers' comp will be what determines your light duty functions, your pay and things like that.

J Basser: 29:54

Well, I remember when I was working with the VA, we had an office setting. We had a high-dollar RN, very skilled, and she got hurt in her back and she was waiting on her what do you call it? That she put in for her retirement and she had to wait until it came through. So they sent her up to the office and they just put her down at her desk and just gave her a bunch of stuff to go through. She didn't, you know, do anything really, but still the VA, you know, and the, the OPM, and OPM takes it over. I forget, but I think there's like four people doing the entire country for workers' retirement. It takes a long time. It takes a very long time. At least they gave her something to do and kept paying her. She's probably the highest paid paper push I've ever seen, though MRNs make a lot of money. They're special areas, you know. It's surprising, mm-hmm. Yeah, If she wants to be a family nurse.

J Basser: 31:05

She can cripple it, that's true.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 31:09

You know, I know a nurse practitioner that was working at the VA and she took a position as an RN and got paid more. Yeah, they probably did that based on experience, right. Well, it was just that particular position and I don't know if it was even a vision job or it was something completely different. So she didn't have the higher responsibility of the nurse practitioner position, she was doing RN case management or something, and was making more money.

J Basser: 31:56

Okay, well, I'd say she didn't have the responsibility, she got lucky. It's true, that's good.

Ray Cobb: 32:09

Bethany, I have a question about a gentleman that I knew. I worked at the VA. He had a pretty I'm going to say an upper type of I think he was maybe 60% on a PTSD disability. They hired him as a painter. He was actually painting things around the VA hospital but in doing so he was always seeing other veterans with disabilities and other veterans kind of sometimes losing it in the lobby with other individuals because of their PTSD and it actually worsened his condition. Now I know they were talking to him the time that I visited with him about having to let him go, or they were trying to find out if there was a job that he could do that would not affect his PTSD. What is the obligation of an employer in a situation similar to that, whether it be the VA or private sector, when there's something going on in the workforce around them that causes a condition that they have to be worsened?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 33:36

So for that particular individual you may be able to claim a worker or file a workers' comp claim. But that would be a fight. I see the workers' comp agencies trying to say it's not work-related. Again, if he's already 60% then he's a significant disability for mental health and they would be treating him back to baseline. If in this situation he made or requested reasonable accommodations, that is where they are to find because of his disability. They are to find another position or other tasks. They can't promote him to put him in that job. But if there's an open position they can put him in that position to make accommodations for that disability.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 34:40

So if on the reasonable accommodations it says no patient care or no interaction with patients, then they would have to put him in an environment where he's not getting that exposure. I would equate this to like asthma. So if somebody has a pre-existing asthma condition and then they're put in an environment where it's making the asthma worse, then the exacerbation or the worsening of that asthma could be covered under workers' comp In the long term. If they're in an environment let's say the humidity or the fumes or from something in the environment is causing their asthma to be worse, they can then file for reasonable accommodations, and then the employer has to move them into an area where they're not exposed to those chemicals or fumes in order to control their asthma.

Ray Cobb: 35:35

This gentleman wanted to be moved to, or what he was wanting was to be able to continue with working, continue painting, but he just had asked them not to put him into areas, especially into the mental health section, where you know he would be experiencing and seeing those type of individuals that have the same problems that he does, if not worse. And they were reluctant to do that, although they had teams that were in other locations on the facility that were, you know, constantly in certain areas. You know they get through with one building and then they go to another and then by the time they finished that it'd be time to go back and paint more in the first building. But those were considered easier cushion jobs and the guys with more seniority got those. And that's what he was requesting instead of having to leave his position at the VA. Would that be a reasonable request?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 36:49

In my opinion, based off the information you've given me, they should have been able to make reasonable accommodations for that individual. He shouldn't have been forced to leave or fired or let go.

Ray Cobb: 36:59

I don't know what happened. I haven't seen him in a couple of years, so I don't know what the situation developed.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 37:08

And when it comes to reasonable accommodations and just like for this individual, go talk to your union, so then that way they can help support you in obtaining those reasonable accommodations. And that's what I would say for that guy too that's a difficult one, yeah, that's sad, I'll tell you. What, though? People can't do it?

J Basser: 37:36

and have to retire, especially working. Yeah, that's sad. Yeah, I'll tell you what, though? People can't do it and have to retire, especially working for the government. When it occurs, people need to think long and hard about retiring and coming. You know, especially if you're under a certain age. If you're under like 50, 55 years old and you're 53 years old or younger and you decide that you're going to have to retire, you're going to have a disability that will probably take you at least a year and a half to two years to get approved. So people are leaving and going home and no income whatsoever besides their annual, even sick, leave for a couple of years. You know that? Yeah, that's true, but it gets a lot worse. You guys ever heard of the word called erisa? E-r-i-s-a ISA?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 38:37

I haven't Uh-uh.

J Basser: 38:44

The risk of income is a law passed by Congress several years ago. It's an income survivor or something like that, and what it does it's supposed to help the people that become disabled. And you know that way, they won't starve to death, which is the biggest joke.

J Basser: 39:00

It always looks good on paper but in reality it's the complete opposite. So I want to give an example of this person who worked for the Veterans Administration and hurt their back and couldn't make any accommodations. They sent them home and couldn't make any accommodations. They sent them home. But once they exhausted their sick leave and annual leave, you know, after about a year and a half they tried to hang on to the retirement stuff and had to use it to take care of other stuff and they finally get approved. So it's already been a year and a half.

J Basser: 39:35

You get a check. You get 60% of what you were making in the first year, which doesn't sound too bad, right? It's not like a year and a half. And you get a check. You get 60% of what you were making in the first year. It doesn't sound too bad, right? It sounds like a pretty good little check. Your interest comes out of it still.

J Basser: 39:46

But all of a sudden you start year two, year two, you're only making 40% of what you make. Now that 40% you still got to pay your insurance and stuff. You know, because if you work for the VA, you know the health insurance and all the insurances ain't cheap, are they? Uh-uh? Nope, okay. So a person making $65,000, $70,000 a year, you have $800 a month. That continues until a certain age. Until you reach your age, you know you live to 62 or whatever. At 62, you get it all back. But surviving from that period the time you get 62, can be detrimental to a person. So that is one drawback of ERISA and the disability process that I can't stand. But you're allowed to work and make up to a certain percentage of what you made. You know you can do that, but some people, if you have to come home you can't do it, you know Right.

J Basser: 40:46

It all depends on you, so it kind of sucks in a way. Need to do a little better of that law especially. You know workers come for not much help either.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 41:00

A lot of times the that's not right.

J Basser: 41:02

Go ahead.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 41:04

Well, the workers' comp stuff reminds me a lot of the VA stuff, the veterans fighting for their service-connected disabilities. And now, if it's a workers' comp claim, I feel like it's just like a veteran fighting for service connections because they're going to do whatever they can to try to fight your workers' comp claim. Those workers' comp the reps that work there. They have numbers attached to their performance.

J Basser: 41:35

Yeah, the only thing, the way to beat that is have an attorney and a judge tell them different. That costs money. So if you have a worker's comp claim, you better have a lawyer on speed dial, because you're not going to win unless you do.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 41:55

I'm not being morbid but I've seen. Go ahead. I'm not being morbid, but I think that they're fighting the claim and if they win the claim, they owe all the money back.

J Basser: 42:24

Which is not true. I wonder if the people who work at workers' comp have been trained by the VA regional office for any reason you reckon?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 42:41

I bet you they have the same number system Only approve so many claims.

J Basser: 42:47

I can see it.

Ray Cobb: 42:49

I can see it, you know.

J Basser: 42:50

I guess they got their employees from the insurance sector outside the VA. You know what insurance people's favorite word is, don't you Nope? What is that Nope? Unless you make them mad, then it starts with an H no. No, I don't mean to rep on the VA, but somebody's got to do it, somebody's got to do it. Somebody's got to do it. It's just a hard thing. I mean, if you work in employee health and you're seeing these people that are hurt, injured, and you're trying to help them, you know to get through their process. Because you said that you know you have a. You know.

J Basser: 43:37

I guess your alliance relies on your patience, which is good. You know it should be because you know you've got to treat it yourself because you can't mistreat it. You're setting you up for liability. You're correct, but some of these management people that run around there.

J Basser: 43:57

They have different ideas and usually they don't care. The only thing they want to see is production. They don't care about the person individually, they just want to see production. And that's pretty sad and withdrawn. But it's within the confines of the government. The same way, regardless if it's the VA or DOD or the Department of the army, department Navy, all the same, because you can't do the job, their favorite word is next. So if you can get past all the jockeying for position to get promotions and stuff all the knives, trying knives out, all the backstabbing and everything else and more with it. But it's very similar too in the manufacturing environment. You're talking about rather large companies. I know how some other large companies do it too.

J Basser: 45:06

I'm just glad I wasn't involved with that. Ray, why don't you give us a preview of a couple of shows we're going to do?

Ray Cobb: 45:10

We're having a.

J Basser: 45:11

I don't know what it's called a shindig, a party, a conference? What do they call that, ray?

Ray Cobb: 45:20

I haven't even come up with a name. I actually refer to it as a conference or a seminar.

Ray Cobb: 45:27

November 28th, we're actually going to try to have most of your guests that we have from time to time into Winchester, tennessee, and have a live seminar that will go on all day. It will start around 830 in the morning with coffee and donuts and then the speakers start at 9 o'clock. And, bethany, I appreciate that I got the information that you're going to try to attend either in person or by Zoom, and also Alex Graham has said the same thing, so we look forward. For those of you that are coming from out of town, you're going to see a treat that time of the year. We have our Franklin County Memorial flags up that the American Legion puts out, and if we had to put them up today, we'd be putting up 750 flags and crosses honoring our deceased veterans who at one time lived in Franklin County. And we've got two or three that go all the way back to the Revolutionary War. We've got two or three that go all the way back to the Revolutionary War. So it's and we've got Davy Crockett and General Patton for a couple. It's really. You drive around our county, around our community and the town of Winchester, and all these flags are flying In one area. You drive down and you have 150 flags on each side of the road as you drive through them, so that's kind of impressive. But the main thing we want to do with so many new ways of doing a claim and things of that nature right now, which you're going to be able to help us out a lot on is with the new way of your claims and your appeals.

Ray Cobb: 47:20

A lot of our individuals, veterans and fellow soldiers and comrades that are now getting into the VA system because of the toxic exposures of the Gulf War and the PAC Act. They need some new training and some of us old guys we do it totally different today. I mean, I know James' script redneck ways could always work but there's some ways that you can do it. That might be a little easier and faster today than what it was when James taught me how to do it and go through it. So that's what the seminar is going to be about.

Ray Cobb: 48:02

We got John you're coming down from Kentucky and hopefully Bethany you'll be able to attend and Alex sent me an email yesterday says he's been traveling a lot lately but he may be rested by then and don't be surprised if he shows up. So I'm kind of keeping my fingers crossed that he gets rested up and he's able to come in. Then James Cripps is coming from Ashland City. He'll be speaking and we actually have General Baker, who's the commissioner for the State of Tennessee Veterans Service Office, who's the commissioner for the State of Tennessee Veterans Service Office, and he's going to be talking about what the State of Tennessee gives to veterans when they reach 100 percent tax break and their property tax and their car tags. I get free fisherman's hunting license. That's a lot for me. You know I'll enjoy that a lot things of that nature.

Ray Cobb: 48:56

But it'll be an all-day event. Lunch will be served. We do have a limited space so as we get this kicked off, probably the 1st of September, you'll have to RSVP or make reservations for it. I think we're going to be able to handle 150 for the seminar, lunch and dinner, plus our guests. So we should have somewhere around 190 people at the event. So that would be a pretty good seminar. And we're going to end the seminar with whoever happens to be able to be there for the whole day will be on the panel and we'll do an hour of question and answer and let individuals bring up their any questions that they have thought of for the first time that day or anything that's been on their mind that we didn't cover during the seminar. But that's kind of what we got in the plans and what's in the works, so it should be a fun day.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 50:06

That's a lot. That's going to be a good event.

Ray Cobb: 50:09

Oh yeah.

Ray Cobb: 50:13

We did something similar to this. The last one we had was in 2016, looking up some of that information today and in 2016, we had 129 veterans attend. We took in on that particular, which we're not going to do this time. On that particular conference, I had the regional office come down and set up. We provided them an area in a different room where they could connect into the Internet and veterans could go in and file a complete claim. They could find out where their claim was at that time and what was going on or exactly where it stood. We had one veteran who walked in.

Ray Cobb: 50:59

It was kind of funny. He went in and met with them and he came back out. It was a little before lunch. He was smiling. Everybody said how did it go? He just said, well, it went pretty good. Well, it went pretty good. They said, well, you sure didn't look happy. How good did it go? He wouldn't say anything. He ate lunch and after lunch he disappeared. Nobody saw him any after lunch and one of the guys that came from Ashland City, where he was, called him and said why did you leave early? He said well, I had to get home. He said why? He said, well, when I went in they told me that $70,000 had been deposited in my account that day and I won my case and I had to get home and tell my wife, before some of you guys did you know, so that you know that made when you, when you look at out of those that filed, eventually, every one of them it might've taken two or three years but every one of them eventually eventually won their claim and a lot of that had to do with the information.

Ray Cobb: 52:01

I remember James, when he took the podium that day. He said how many of you think when you get to a hundred percent? First he asked how many are a hundred percent and a few of them raised their hands. It was five or six or more. And then he says how many of you think that when you reach 100%, your work is finished? And every one of them raised their hands. He says well, get your pencil and paper out, because I'm telling you it's not.

Ray Cobb: 52:30

And then he started going into the letter words and some of these special monthly compensations, the automobile grant, the housing grant and HESA and all of these other things that they could get and receive. And it was surprising. I looked back at our county service officer at the time and his jaw was down to his, his chin was down to his knees. He couldn't believe what he was hearing. He walked up to me and said does that guy really know what he's talking about? I said he sure does. He's gotten most of it, you know, and so you know.

Ray Cobb: 53:04

That was an eye-opener to every one of those vets that were there that day. And that's what we want to do. We want to open their eyes and we want them to start thinking outside of what just the VA is telling them. You know it's my responsibility as a veteran to research out my medical conditions and make sure I understand them and see if there's any benefits to which I deserve. If I don't deserve any, then that's fine, I don't want them. But if I do deserve them, then I want them. And that's what we try to do at these conferences. And I haven't talked to either one of you about what you're going to talk about, bethany. Where do you think you may speak about that day? I would like for you to talk about your company and what they can do for you, I would for.

J Basser: 53:52

Beth, exactly.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 53:55

Well, I'd be happy to talk about that, but I also really the topic is up to you. You tell me if you want me to start from an elementary level or a more advanced level.

J Basser: 54:08

Yeah.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 54:10

I mean we can cover elementary, we can talk about fully developed planes and if I recommend them or not. Or we can talk about when you need an excess letter or what not to do at your CMP. I mean there's a wealth of information.

Ray Cobb: 54:33

Go ahead. One of the biggest questions I have.

J Basser: 54:36

I mean, we've been talking to Ray, you know, and the history. One of the biggest questions I have is John, go ahead, they don't have a scope. Like, for example, you've got a scope, you've got a diverse group of examiners say that you can use. You know, and you're probably head and shoulders above the rest of them. You know, because if you need somebody to go see a pharyngeal cardiologist for tinnitus that happened years ago well she could probably dig up the rocks and turn upside down and make it happen.

Ray Cobb: 55:15

You know that's what she did yeah happen you know that's what she did. Yeah, and that's a great point, because I know that we have doctors around here and when I first started working with some of them, they were fine. They saw me, I went in, told them what I needed, what I wanted and what I hoped the results would be, and they basically would do that. And then the next thing, I know a lot of them start saying no, we don't want to be involved because it involves the federal government and we don't want them picking at us. And then they, you know, and I, and then once a well, we don't want to treat you because you're a veteran and you're into the veterans. Now, if you want to come to us for all your treatment, we'd be glad to give you a diagnosis and to write you the letter, but we will also want to treat your condition and we actually had doctors around here. Bring that up and say that.

Ray Cobb: 56:15

So that's where Bethany's group would definitely come in and be a good, direct way of going ahead and getting it done and not having to search out and find. But you know there's so many topics. We actually you're right, bethany, you hit on so many things and I'm not for sure, but I know right now we're going to have some individuals that are just getting started and I know we're going to have some that are going to be there, that already are ones you know. So it's going to be a very wide range of let's leave out what you're talking about Ray.

Ray Cobb: 56:58

Yeah, but we're going to have a wide spread of individuals there, you know, and I'm looking forward to it. Somebody asked me how it got started. One of our local individuals who attended the one in 2016 said when are you going to have another conference? And I said well, I don't know.

Ray Cobb: 57:23

I said well we probably have one. And then they came up and said, well, why don't you have one on the DPAC Act? And that just kind of started, it just mushroomed and it all came together within two weeks Got the location, got someone to prepare the meal, got you folks on board and it's going to be great, we're going to have a good time.

J Basser: 57:48

Good job, Brad. Hey, you've got a minute left, guys. You don't want to put in close, Bethany. You want to put your website out there for these folks.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 57:58

Yeah sure, so valorforvetcom valor, the number four, vetcom. You can call us at 888-448-1011. We've got some folks that are disabled veterans themselves and would be happy to talk to you about your claim.

J Basser: 58:16

Good deal, all right, guys. Thanks for listening to the show. We do appreciate you. We're back next week with another guest and we'll have another topic. But keep this fresh in your mind. If you have any issues, log back on to the show later on and listen to the archives. You can listen to all of them. They're on the Blog Talk Radio, exposed Vet. This is John. I'm half of Bethany and Ray Cobb I'm Hapa. Bethany and Ray Cobb will be signing off. For now. You have been listening to the Exposed Bet Podcast. Any opinions expressed on the show are the opinions of the guest speakers and not necessarily the opinions of Exposed Bet, exposedbetcom or Blog Talk Radio. Tune in next week for another episode of the Exposed Bet Podcast. Thanks for listening.