J Basser: 0:03

It's time for the Exposed Bed Podcast. The Exposed Bed Podcast discusses issues related to today's veteran. To call into the show, dial 515-605-9764. Now here's your host, john and Gerald. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen and veterans and families and and spouses, to another episode of the Exposed Bed Radio Show. Today's the 14th day it's a great month of September 2023. We've got a show for you tonight. Our co-hosts tonight we've got Doolin co-hosts. We've got Mr Ray Cobb out of Tennessee, almost Alabama, but he's still in Tennessee, and we've got the boss, bethany Spangberg. She's going to help us out and co-host a little bit. But tonight we've got a treat for you. I've been reading about this place, this group online. Bethany says to me about it. It's called Operation Stand Down Rhode Island and basically it's a nonprofit organization out of Rhode Island. They provide a host of services for veterans and we've got one of the folks on today. Bethany, how are you doing?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 1:19

I'm doing well. How are you Good?

J Basser: 1:24

Oh, we're just living the dream. We're living the dream, but tell us a little something about these folks and what they do. I mean, you know, I know I've read their website, stuff like that. It seems to me like they're. I mean, I think more states need to have something like that, you know, to do the same thing they're doing, because it seems to me like they're rocking in all cylinders and it looks pretty good.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 1:55

Well, I'd first like to start with talking about Kaylee, their managing attorney for veterans disability claims. She's actually on with us right now. Hello, I've known Kaylee since 2017.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 2:12

We actually met at a NOVA conference and at that time she was working for a private attorney in a private practice. Where were they based out of? Kaylee, rhode Island. Oh, okay, I couldn't remember what they were based out of. But then, shortly after we met, she transitioned into Operation Stand Down, rhode Island, and watching her transition from the private practice into Operation Stand Down, it's actually been a treat for me to watch the program that she's involved with now give back to the veteran community and it's pretty impressive. So, kaylee, if you don't mind kind of telling your background a little bit and how you got into veteran disability.

J Basser: 2:58

Yeah, absolutely so. My name is Kaylee Wildenheen. I'm an attorney with now Operation Stand Down. So my name is Kaylee Wilberhean. I'm an attorney with now Operation Stand Down. We provide wraparound services for homeless and at-risk veterans. I run the legal side of things, but I do VA disability exclusively, so I help veterans get disability benefits through the VA, and I started that up with Operation Stand Down back in 2018 when I came on board. So it has been a fun journey.

J Basser: 3:26

I originally set up with Rob Levine's office in 2015, and he had hired me pretty much right out of law school to kind of start up their VA division, which was a tough thing to do, but I had a lot of great support.

J Basser: 3:42

Tough thing to do, but I had a lot of great support. We were able to help a lot of veterans in the private sector, which was wonderful. And then in 2018, when Eric, the executive director at Operation Stand Down, came on, he reached out to me and said you know, I'd love to do something like you're doing for Rob's office. I'd love to do it for our people. And I said sounds interesting, tell me more. And a few months later, you know I was over there starting up a whole new division with VA Disability for a different client base. So it has been, it's been fun. It's been fun to kind of get my hands dirty and really help these veterans who there's such a huge need, especially, you know, in the state of Rhode Island, we have so many, so many veterans that we provide life-changing like life-changing resources too.

J Basser: 4:48

So that's why I'm proud to be a part of that organization, and it just never ceases to amaze me. Every year we grow a little bit bigger, we do a little bit more, and I completely agree. I think this should be something that's in every single state, but unfortunately, I think one of the only operations to stand down happens to be in Rhode Island. I think there's a few other ones throughout the country, but yeah, I'd love to talk more about it if you guys have questions.

J Basser: 5:19

Okay, one question is how did you guys really get started? I mean, I know Operation Stand Down. I mean I know it's a nonprofit and you know we can know what you guys do. You know for vets, you do claims and you do other activities and other stuff for vets and homeless vets and stuff like that. But is this somebody's brainchild? Is this something that you know? There's always an idea behind you know there's always an idea behind the startup. I'm just trying to figure out how you guys got started.

J Basser: 5:52

So our president and founder, tony DiQuatro. He started this organization back in 1991. He just saw a need for it. He saw his friends, a lot of people he served with in the Marine Corps, who were either homeless or who were looking for jobs or who needed just random different resources that people like veterans are entitled to. But they weren't sure how to access them. So he started up an organization, operation Stand Down in 91, and it's been just growing ever since.

J Basser: 6:25

We started out with just a few. We got a grant from the federal government, housing assistance to homeless and at-risk veterans originally. That grant has now grown quite significantly. So we're able to do a lot more with that. But we have over the years accumulated I think it's like 88 properties throughout the state of Rhode Island where we're able to house people temporarily. So if you're a veteran who is homeless or an immediate risk of homelessness, we can either help you out with providing rent rental assistance for a month or two just to get you back on your feet providing rent rental assistance for a month or two just to get you back on your feet or we actually now can provide you with housing. We have 88, like I said, 88 units throughout the state, all different areas where veterans can go, and we provide a subsidy. They, you know, pay a little bit into it each month but it's really just to kind of get them back on their feet and that's kind of how how it all started.

J Basser: 7:27

A little, I want to say I don't know when employment started, but a while. I want to say maybe five, 10 years after that, employment and training came on board where the director of supportive services, ty Smith he came on a few years before me and he started up the employment and training department. Because there were a bunch of veterans who you know we were able to provide housing for temporarily but they really needed something more sustainable. They needed employment like a connection to set them up with stability long term. So Ty came on board, stability long term. So Ty came on board. He has a bunch of connections with all kinds of different companies throughout Rhode Island where we reach out to them.

J Basser: 8:10

We work hand in hand to try to provide these veterans with trainings. If they need some, we provide them with employment assistance, we help them put a resume together, all that stuff. And then from there, eric was kind of the executive director. It's kind of like well, this is great, but these people still. There's a really big need for this legal assistance piece of it and for a long time nobody really helped homeless veterans with legal assistance, because you have to go to Rhode Island Legal Services, which is all income-based and they're really overworked and they've got a lot on their plate already. So a lot of these veterans were just kind of falling through the cracks, so people couldn't get a job because they were.

J Basser: 8:57

You know they didn't have an address to put down, or they didn't have a referral source or something like that.

J Basser: 9:04

So, Ty came on board to do all that stuff with employment and then for legal assistance. You know, I said, well, I do VA disability and I know a lot of those benefits translate into health care benefits, translate into all kinds of different benefits other than monetary monthly benefits you get. So there was just a big need you get. So, um, there was just a big need for it. And Eric said, let's figure out how we can do this. So, um, we provide legal assistance for all kinds of things. We do landlord tenant disputes, we do Wilson trusts, we do. We help with criminal um convictions, expungements, all kinds of stuff. And, like I said, we do. We help with criminal convictions, expungements, all kinds of stuff. And, like I said, I do the VA disability side of things. So it's definitely we try to provide wraparound services now as much as we can. I don't know what the next thing is going to be.

J Basser: 9:59

You got to figure it out. So you guys actually I mean now if you've got a veteran that is homeless, I guess you probably do an interview process and things like that, you know, talk to them. Now if they have a claim to file, do you assist in the claim filing from the start to finish, or how do you do that?

J Basser: 10:17

Yes, exactly, we start. We help them from start to finish. So if they've never filed a claim before, we help them file the claim. Put together evidence for their claim so they can get to a comp and vet or a medical exam. We help prep them for that medical exam. We follow up with the VA until we get a decision, which is usually a couple months. And then we look at that decision we go over it with them. We say if we're lucky, right a couple months is like would be wonderful.

J Basser: 10:49

That's a lot to try.

J Basser: 10:51

Exactly. But we look at the decision once it comes out and we say look, this is what we can do on appeal. We can. You know, I think we can get you a little bit more in your pocket every month. Or you know, this is as far as we can take you, or, you know, we kind of explore our options at that point. But we really pride ourselves on being able to help them from start to finish, all the way through.

J Basser: 11:14

That's good. I mean, you know somebody's got to need it, Absolutely.

J Basser: 11:19

You know, say a veteran out there and say he deserves 100% and he gets it then you know a veteran out there and say he deserves 100% and he gets it, then he's homeless. That's life-changing for him, absolutely. And we also work hand-in-hand with a financial advisor as well. So a lot of those retroactive benefits. Once they're awarded, they can get $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 at once and that's a lot of money for somebody who's homeless. So being able to provide them with the resource just to say, okay, look, you have 30 grand coming in the bank. Here's what we're going to do as a strategy to like we're not going to blow it all on one thing. We're going to sit down and this is what you can do to really budget it out, to make that money last, which I think is a huge, huge benefit, especially for these guys who just have never seen that kind of money.

J Basser: 12:07

That's true. You got to make a roadmap for them and make them follow it. Stick to it.

J Basser: 12:10

You know it's got to be exactly right, I know some people that got that.

J Basser: 12:14

You know, I know people got that. Money went by a bunch of lottery tickets. You know what I mean.

J Basser: 12:17

Oh yeah, we had a guy who he went and bought a truck and he lived in his truck for the next like five years and he was like no, no, I'm happy living in this truck, I would never have had this truck, and he was very grateful for everything we were able to do for him. But you know, everybody can do whatever they want with the money. We just try to provide them with the resources, to kind of be smart about it.

J Basser: 12:43

He could have bought an RV instead. He could live in that.

J Basser: 12:46

You're right. You know you would think that would have been a lot easier.

Kailey King, Esq: 12:51

Or better.

J Basser: 12:57

I mean, how's how you guys doing on the claim side, are you all pretty successful?

J Basser: 13:03

Yeah, I would say for the most part we've had a lot of success. We've raised over $4.6 million in retroactive benefits just for veterans alone in the past, since 2018 when I came on board. So definitely a lot of good that we've been able to do over the course of that time, which is great. And then what we do on appeal oh, thank you.

J Basser: 13:34

And what we do on appeal is we provide, you know, like legal assistance and attorney services. We charge 20% of the retroactive award only on appeals. And what we do as a service to our clients is, if we're successful and we get that attorney fee deposited, we give them a cut of it and we send them a check in the mail. We say, hey, we hope this is 60, 90 days. After they've got their big lump sum check, we say we hope you're doing a lot better. Here's a little bit extra. If you're doing you're in a good position, that's great. That's the goal. Use this money to help somebody else in your community and, if you do, hashtag OSDRI on Instagram and we've had a few people do it and it's really nice to see. It's like we're helping one person and that person is in turn, helping at least another one or two people.

J Basser: 14:32

So it's kind of a trickle-down effect. That's good. That is good with the situation with the new AMA and Legacy and the BVA itself.

J Basser: 14:53

You know they're kind of they're getting deeper and deeper in the hole every day, mm-hmm, every day, every day.

J Basser: 14:58

I'm serious. I mean, if they keep this up.

Kailey King, Esq: 15:04

They're going to wind up at the bottom of Marianne's trench, because the delays are outrageous.

J Basser: 15:07

I mean just the direct docket review itself in the course of three years now.

J Basser: 15:11

Absolutely, and I know a lot of like you go on the board's website, it'll say like oh, we do our direct claims in. You know, on average 84 days or something, and it's just. I don't know where they're getting those dates from, but it hasn't been my experience.

J Basser: 15:28

No, I didn't wait on one since 2020. So no, that's a direct review so.

Kailey King, Esq: 15:34

Yep, it's. Don't wait to get a hearing, yeah, on the way to get a hearing.

J Basser: 15:43

And you know, of course you got a homeless and he's doing that.

J Basser: 15:49

He can use that homeless as maybe an advancement of the docket, can't he, mm-hmm, exactly. Or you've got someone who's got a terminal illness, who's got, you know, six months to live, and you try to expedite it and they grant your motion and they're just like, yeah, you're on the expedited docket and you wait there for another six months.

J Basser: 16:10

Well, that's true, I mean. But there's more than one way to skin a cat, you know, I mean you've got to do what you've got to do and you know they can get an advancement. That's great, you know. But sometimes, you know, like you said, there's a lot of cracks. Actually, there's a lot of cracks and a lot of hoops and a whole bunch of red tape.

J Basser: 16:28

Yep, exactly, especially when you wait three years for that board decision and it's a remand. It started all over again pretty much, you know.

J Basser: 16:36

Oh, don't get me started on remands. How long have?

Kailey King, Esq: 16:39

you got, we could talk all night.

J Basser: 16:44

Absolutely.

Kailey King, Esq: 16:44

John, I have a question.

Ray Cobb: 16:46

Uh-huh. She mentioned something that just two days ago I was having somewhat of. He tried to be one-sided but I wouldn't allow it. Our local county service officer and he was trying to tell me you know how they were doing better and doing better.

Ray Cobb: 17:06

And finally I got him to admit that 96% of their claims are denied on the first go-around on the first goal round, and what I'm thinking, or what I'm hearing here, is that your ratio is a whole lot less than that on the first goal round. And my thinking, or my question that I would really want to try to understand, is what is your group doing different than the county service officers? I imagine there's a lot, but what have you found? That on the first goal round, the first claim the percentage, or do you even know the percentage is a denial that you didn't have to turn around and do the appeal on. I just can't comprehend in the state of Tennessee how these guys are willing to live with a 96% rejection rate.

J Basser: 18:07

Absolutely. That's a great question, I would say a lot of the VFWs and DAVs, those veteran service organizations. They have great hearts and they mean well, but they are overworked and underpaid and so they have they're representing each person might be representing 2,000, you know 1,000 to 2,000 veterans and that's just too much, too many to keep track of and to, you know, really do a good job with their claim and really help them through the process. So I think part of what we do that's different is we walk them through it hand in hand. So we will reach out to them, we'll talk to them and say, okay, this is what you expect.

J Basser: 18:46

Next we're going to file this claim. You're already at 80%. We're not going to file for hearing loss and tinnitus because it's it's not going to do anything for you. Here's where the juice might be worth the squeeze, you know. So we really kind of sit down with them, look through their file. We find out what we can do to really get the most benefits for the veteran. And on top of that, I think the biggest thing we do, one of the best resources that we were able to provide, is that statement piece, I think, just literally submitting a statement about what you think, what happened in service that you think led to your condition half the time. That's the reason they get a comp and pen exam and that's the reason they either get a grant or there's something we can at least point to when we go to appeal.

J Basser: 19:39

So I would say our success rate is? It depends. I would say like 60, 40. So we're about 60% of the cases we're able to get them at least something on initial and then on appeal you might need something else, but yeah, the goal is always to get them something in their pocket as soon as possible?

Ray Cobb: 20:00

One thing you brought up there does the state of Rhode Island provide each county with a? I'm going to say an agent, a VA agent that can actually do that, or they don't.

J Basser: 20:19

So we have in Rhode Island I think it's maybe because it's so. I don't know how it works in other states, but at least I can speak for Rhode Island they have one, a DAV office. I think there's a few DAV offices throughout the state, but they're really operating out of the VA, the VA office in Providence.

J Basser: 20:41

So it's really just one central location, um, which is good and bad. I mean, it's a good to they know where to find you, you know, you know where to go, but um and a lot of them also are working remote now.

Kailey King, Esq: 20:56

Well, yeah, exactly, and they're the first people to get access to stuff too. So we're working remote now?

J Basser: 20:59

Yeah, exactly, they get free rent. They get free rent.

J Basser: 21:03

And they're the first people to get access to stuff too. Ray, I can elaborate a little bit on this. You realize that these organizations that she gave a rundown, they're overworked, but this is the most important factor there. A lot of them are under terrain. They're overworked, but this is the most important factor there. A lot of them is under-trained, and you know there's a busy that. You know you've got to have a lot of experience doing this if you're going to be successful. Now you throw in the mix an attorney. That starts from the get-go. Well, first of all, when an attorney gets a hold of it, legal precedence takes in right there, because it's got an attorney backing it. You know right, and so that's the difference.

J Basser: 21:44

Yeah, absolutely you know she's basing her opinion on the idea she's basing her opinion and stuff off of Title 38. Everybody else is using M-21. So that's a big difference.

J Basser: 21:54

Yeah, Exactly, we're citing it. I mean it's not as big at the regional office level because they're a lot more black and white Once you get up to the board. It's a whole different ballgame. But I think there's definitely people kind of will look at something a little closer if there's an Esquire attached to the rep. You know what I mean. They tend not to miss things.

J Basser: 22:19

As much Well, or JD behind the name, you know. Mm-hmm. Jd is a big good word.

J Basser: 22:33

You know, you can either be a JD at your doctorate or a JD at.

Kailey King, Esq: 22:36

Juvenile Delinquent right One or the other, Sometimes both.

J Basser: 22:41

No, you guys do good stuff. I mean it's you know. I wish there were more groups like it. You know because you know as an attorney you really can't take a veteran's claim once and start to finish. You know you can handle appeals for a charge and start to finish.

J Basser: 22:57

you know you can handle appeals for a charge at that time. Yeah, and that's the toughest part about being in private practice like coming from private practice where I, you know, would see people I'd see veterans all the time where I'd be like, oh man, I could only help you, but I can't help you on initials, so why don't you go file and go get denied and then just come back to us afterward and it just broke my heart to just have to turn away these veterans? Just because we couldn't make a fee.

J Basser: 23:24

You know they don't have to get denied Okay. If they have a decision in hand that they do not agree with, then you can still take it right, even on the board. You can take it If they don't agree with the NOD and they appeal to it.

J Basser: 23:40

Oh yeah, you do that within a year, as long as you file it within a year, you can always do that, yeah. Absolutely Well, when I was in private practice, we needed that denial first, but that's why this piece of it just being able to help people on initials has been so eye-opening.

J Basser: 23:59

There are some groups out there now that are doing stand-by-stand. They're charging crap out of veterans. I don't see how they've been doing it which they're not supposed to do, I know, but you see them advertising all the time.

J Basser: 24:15

They try to disclaim it by saying oh, I'm not a medical, we're not, you know, legal licensed legal advocates. You know you're paying us a consulting fee. But yeah, they're trying to pass legislation now to fix that.

J Basser: 24:30

We put a stop to that. So that's just smoke and mirrors, you know, that's all it is, and they're able to take advantage of so many people. Yeah, beth, and I have talked about this a lot, haven't we Beth? Yes, a lot, it's a heartburn.

Kailey King, Esq: 24:53

But I mean.

J Basser: 24:55

I wish there were more groups like you guys in each state you know. And what's the size of Rhode Island? What's the population of Rhode Island?

J Basser: 25:05

You know what? I'm not even sure. I know we're the smallest state by far. I'm going to Google it.

J Basser: 25:14

I thought that was Delaware. Let's see.

J Basser: 25:19

No, Rhode Island's the smallest state by area, I believe.

J Basser: 25:23

Mm-hmm. Oh, okay, area.

Kailey King, Esq: 25:26

Mm-hmm.

J Basser: 25:28

I'm just trying to think, you know I mean other states ought to. You know there needs to be more outreach like that.

J Basser: 25:38

Right, exactly yeah, and it's right up here Right, exactly yeah, and it's right next to Massachusetts. So we do a lot of work with, like, people just over the border. You know New Bedford, that whole southeastern Massachusetts area, I know you guys don't know what I'm talking about, but I've been there, you're like no. Massachusetts, oh yeah.

J Basser: 25:56

Where'd you?

J Basser: 25:56

come.

J Basser: 25:57

Yeah, newport Logan Airport? No, I pulled into. Oh yeah, where'd you come? Newport Logan Airport? No, I pulled into Logan Airport, boston.

Kailey King, Esq: 26:09

And then we drove out to a toilet dealer to fix a couple of cars and got back out before the hurricane hit.

J Basser: 26:14

It's a beautiful country though it is.

J Basser: 26:15

Absolutely, oh, it's great around here. I mean absolutely, oh, it's great around here. And, um, you were able to do a lot of really, we've actually been able to start up a lot of uh resource, like a lot of different things or services, uh to veterans throughout the state of Rhode Island that other states are now picking up on and taking taking over. So like we, for example, when Eric Wallen the executive director, when he took over, he was a criminal defense attorney and so he knew a lot about criminal law.

J Basser: 26:50

And he said you know what? There's so many veterans who you know. There's so many barriers to them getting employment because of their criminal record, or they just need help with a traffic ticket, or you know something like that. There's just little things that people aren't really thinking of the barriers that they have in front of them on top of everything else. So he said, you know, we should really have some type of Veterans Treatment Corps or something. So that's what we have in Rhode Island now and other states have picked up on it and other states have instituted it as well. But it's a whole docket, a whole calendar for veterans and they provide all types of free legal services, legal assistance and help walk these veterans through what is already a daunting and kind of terrifying process to go through.

J Basser: 27:47

It is. I mean, you know having them go through it, you know it makes it, you know at least it makes one feel better that there is help available. And of course, a lot of states now have their own veterans courts. Have you seen that?

J Basser: 28:00

Yeah, exactly that's what I'm talking about, Exactly. They have different treatment courts where the judges say, okay, like this person had a DUI, but they're dealing with, you know, substance and alcohol abuse issues because of their PTSD and it's stemming it all stems from something that happened to them while they were in service, and that's we're responsible for that.

J Basser: 28:21

We take on a piece of that and we say you know what? We're going to help you out. We're going to give you what we call a hand up not a handout where we're able to just step in and say look, your Honor, this isn't your average Joe Schmo, this is a veteran, this is someone who served our country and is suffering because of it, and we need to help them out and we've been able, like this year at Stand Down the Stand Down event we're doing today and tomorrow, we have a licensed and trafficked tribunal court where they'll go, the veterans. All they have to do is show up on the day of the docket and judge comes with all of their parking tickets. So, as long as you show up, you can get your parking tickets, with which is huge.

J Basser: 29:14

And that is sometimes just the barrier to people getting off the couch or people getting their license back or stuff like that. We try to remove all of those barriers, especially today and tomorrow. It's a huge, huge event we do.

J Basser: 29:29

Yeah, I saw that. I think that's the reason. Bethany's there, right, she might even be a presenter, I think, isn't she?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 29:37

in her, I think, isn't she? No, I'm actually one of just another resource for the veterans in supporting Operation Stand Down. There's actually 47 different, I don't know. I said vendors earlier, but vendors is not correct.

Kailey King, Esq: 29:58

Providers.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 29:59

Service providers, both government and civilian there to support the veteran in different aspects. There was a vendor for financial coaching, there was a dentist office with a mobile dentist chair and they were doing x-rays behind the building. It was pretty impressive to see the number of services that were being provided to these veterans. Yeah, it's great.

J Basser: 30:26

And every year it grows a little bit. We had haircuts, we had massages. Today we had comfort dogs. You know, every year we have a bunch of dogs come and they have like a whole area and everybody loves that I mean, who doesn't love a dog? But yeah, and I feel like it's just every year it keeps growing and growing. We had 46 this year and it's so it's just such a great the biggest one and definitely Rylan. It might be the biggest event in the northeast, honestly the poor homeless veterans.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 31:01

So we get a big tournament every year good, I don't hear you god damn it, I was I was surprised to see the state entities. So the rhode island department of labor was there. There was was some of the state tax representatives there. The unclaimed funds was there. So I was just surprised to see not only civilian but some of the state government support there. The Attorney General showed up today. The governor is supposed to be there tomorrow. It's really impressive to see the impact.

Kailey King, Esq: 31:41

Yeah, it was great, and we had lunch.

J Basser: 31:45

The director of the VA in Rhode Island. He actually served everybody lunch today. So it's nice to see we have so much support and I don't know if it's just Rhode Island, because we're so small. Everybody kind of like it's easy to reach out to people. But yeah, we have a lot of support from the state, which is awesome.

J Basser: 32:05

That's a benefit, you know. You know, if you've got a place that small, it is a benefit Because you can cover more bases and more ground that way, which is good Right and.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 32:14

I think, at the end of the day, we all Go ahead.

J Basser: 32:20

I I think at the end of the day, we all have the same goal. We all want to just help these people who did something so brave for our country, and it's nice to be able to do that on a daily basis. But to have other people who are like, oh, you're doing that, oh, that's so great, you know what I can do, and people just come out of the woodwork to you know, think of what they can offer, what they can bring to the table and what they can do to help, it's infectious.

J Basser: 32:52

Well you can't get with a good person there and Beth can go out for that. I mean, she's got basically the same ideas. You know she wants to help as many veterans as she can you know, we like to help them too. So you know we all have a common goal. You know which we help by getting information out and you know putting them in the right direction. You know.

J Basser: 33:16

Absolutely, and we're able to help veterans across the country too.

Kailey King, Esq: 33:20

so, if you know, if you don't live in rye island.

J Basser: 33:22

We can still help you out if you're struggling. You know we try to do as much as we can and if you're willing to, you know, sit and talk to us, then we are willing to help you. So that's what's so great about just doing va law in general is I'm able to help people. I'm still looking for a client in hawaii. If you're in haw, Hawaii, I want to represent you because I want to come to a travel hearing and I would like to stay for a week.

J Basser: 33:46

Yeah, right.

J Basser: 33:48

There's got to be veterans in Hawaii.

J Basser: 33:54

Well, that's. True, Beautiful place yeah right Beautiful place I was stationed place. Yeah right, Beautiful place. I was stationed there, oh yay.

J Basser: 34:03

So you know where it's at.

J Basser: 34:06

Yeah, must have been a few years ago, yeah, not that many. Fortunately, you probably have a couple of listeners tonight from Hawaii, so maybe somebody ought to reach out and touch you.

Kailey King, Esq: 34:18

Absolutely Get your contact information yeah, absolutely.

J Basser: 34:23

We'll get your contact information.

Kailey King, Esq: 34:25

All right.

J Basser: 34:26

Yeah, absolutely. Anything we can do to help, we can go on our website OFTRIorg. All resources and stuff are available right there too.

J Basser: 34:37

Now as operations teams is Operation.

J Basser: 34:39

Stand Down a local.

J Basser: 34:41

Is Operation Stand Down local or is it something national?

J Basser: 34:46

It's local, it's just Operation Stand Down happened to be Rhode Island, because it's just the way they named it, but there are. I have heard of other. I think there's an Operation Stand Down, florida maybe, but we're not linked at all. But there and there are. I have heard of other.

J Basser: 34:59

I think there's like an operation standout florida maybe, but we're not linked at all okay, so somebody's operation stand I was thinking about naming rats and stuff like that, you know, because every state actually needs something like this. I mean, it'd be great to see something like this with a network, you know somebody gets a phone call somebody from indiana, you know, and you can put them in the right office and stuff like that. I think it'd be a great networking thing. It might help a whole lot, yeah, and I think it'd be more effective than you know other stuff. Right Especially because these are services that are.

J Basser: 35:37

I was going to say it's just that these are services that these veterans are entitled to. It's not like anyone's trying to hide the balls, just making these services available to the veterans so they know this is what you're entitled to, they know what benefits they can get Just having one place to do that is huge.

J Basser: 36:00

How is the PAC-TAC affected?

J Basser: 36:02

you guys, so PAC-TAC has been fun because everybody you know, they see it on TV, they hear about it and so a lot of you've had a lot of clients just filing their own claims and then reaching out to us and saying, hey, just so you know, I filed for PACDAX and we're like, oh no, as your representative, like biggest, like I just want to advocate this. You've got to let us know. We're your representative, we're here to help you. If you want to file a claim, we are here to help you do that. But we are also representatives and we're advocates for what's best for your case. So just filing PAC Act is it might do something, but the VA is not going to know what you're talking about. You've got to have, you've got to file for a respiratory condition and even then you've got to think about okay, is that respiratory condition?

J Basser: 36:56

is another respiratory condition already service-connected? If it is, all right is this going to do anything? So it's definitely thrown a wrench in our cases. They've become a little more complicated. We've got to you know, explain that to people. But it's definitely been favorable. It's been. We've had a lot of success when we file those claims.

J Basser: 37:18

Yeah Well, I don't know. I've seen a lot of stuff, I do a lot of research and stuff, you know and since period of time and do a lot of BBA Board of Veterans Appeals research and I was looking the other day and there's a lot of vets that are following claims based on the fact that they're getting denied.

J Basser: 37:36

I'm going through the appeal process but the major denials that I've seen on the five pages of BBA decisions okay, five full pages now you know that's pretty quick. Five pages of BBA decisions. The backpack's been out for what that's two years.

Kailey King, Esq: 37:50

Mm-hmm.

J Basser: 37:51

Took them two years to write that.

J Basser: 37:55

No, but here's the deal. You know, they've got a denial because they followed a claim, but they don't have a diagnosed condition.

J Basser: 38:02

Okay, you know, I think I got this on the file claim you know, yeah, exactly, and you're supposed to have at least manifest symptoms of a condition, even if it's not a diagnosis. But you've got to be able to at least point to as what I always tell people symptomology, something that affects you today, because if it doesn't affect you today, even if we can get it related, it's going to be at 0% and it's not going to do anything for you monetarily. So it's all about thinking about those conditions that affect you today.

J Basser: 38:39

Well, yeah, you know, rest respiratory's a big thing too. I think the changes, the sleep that we change in the respiratory they're fixing to change the next month or two. I think they're changing the radios and stuff.

J Basser: 38:50

That's huge.

Kailey King, Esq: 38:52

Very huge has that passed.

J Basser: 38:56

Yes, it's passed. They're fixing to change it. I think it's going to take a while. Doug said it would probably be.

J Basser: 39:04

I can't remember the exact date, but I can look it up and tell you, it looks to me like they're taking sleep apnea and if you're on a CPAP machine and you're having problems with it, you can't use it. I think you're going to keep, you know, still a 50% rating. But you know, now it's if you use a CPAP it's a 50% rating and they're trying to change that because I guess too many veterans got awarded sleep apnea and they hadn't paid too much money out. Something like that happens. They try to nip in the bud, you know.

J Basser: 39:36

Yep, they're like oh, we're paying too much money in sleep apnea claims.

J Basser: 39:41

We really think this is related. If you guys got sleep apnea, get that claim in before it changes.

J Basser: 39:48

Absolutely yeah, because your grandfather did.

J Basser: 39:50

Yep Flap that intent to file in today if you can.

Kailey King, Esq: 39:55

Yep.

J Basser: 39:56

At least five to a year. Yep, it's just the way it is.

J Basser: 39:58

You know there's yep, at least five to a year yep. So that's just. It's just the way it is. You know they're always changing. It always changes. Sometimes it's hard to keep up with the changes because you look at the Federal Register and every day there's something new. That's just the way it is. But now, do you yourself, do you go to travel board hearings or do you go to the regional office for the hearings in Rhode Island, or do you do that in other places.

J Basser: 40:36

So I think now most of them are video conference hearings, so you could just you know just a Zoom link, but I generally will waive them wherever I can and just do a legal argument. It's some crazy case where I really want the judge to see that veteran and I think that's going to really hammer something home. But even then it's tough because you're going to sit and wait for a decision for two or three years. So if you go to the hearing docket you're waiting at least an extra year to get a decision.

Kailey King, Esq: 41:12

Yeah or more.

J Basser: 41:12

Because you've got to get scheduled. Exactly because you've got to get scheduled, you've got to get out the docket. Then they've got to write the transcript. Transcript's got to get, you know. You've got to be able to amend the transcript if you think it's wrong. So they've got time for that. It just adds a long time to the wait and I haven't found that it's really worth it. You know, at the end of the day, it's not something I couldn't put in a brief.

J Basser: 41:37

Well, hold them up and take them to DC. That's probably the fastest way.

J Basser: 41:41

Yeah, he literally hands them in.

J Basser: 41:47

That's one of our buddies. He does that. He loves going to DC and having hearings and stuff. He enjoys that. He'll go to DC if you ask him.

J Basser: 42:01

Well, he can go to DC, I'll go to Hawaii.

J Basser: 42:03

He could, he could.

Kailey King, Esq: 42:07

He'd like a Hawaii.

J Basser: 42:08

I guess, oh yeah, I mean, that's a good thing to do You're like an oil air gas.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 42:11

Oh yeah, I mean that's a good thing you do.

J Basser: 42:12

I mean you can you know. I mean you'll find someone you know, Mm-hmm, if you have to go to a hearing like it's going to be probably three or four years from now.

J Basser: 42:19

so you have plenty of time to pay money for the trip you know. Exactly.

J Basser: 42:31

And I think we've got to prep three, four times, and if I have to fly out, I have to fly out. Right now the roads are not moving. I don't know what they're doing. There's a lot of bad roads out there.

J Basser: 42:41

Yeah, bus riding into town is kind of bumpy, yeah, trying to fix it.

Kailey King, Esq: 42:48

It's not like Rhode Island.

J Basser: 42:49

We've got potholes everywhere. We're known for our potholes.

J Basser: 42:52

Yeah, but you don't have the. I mean, look at the snowfall you guys get. You guys get this thing called winter.

J Basser: 43:03

And a thing called fall.

J Basser: 43:07

Yeah, how's the trees looking up?

J Basser: 43:09

for now, Good, they're looking good we got apple picking season this week and next week. It's really like a two week window. So after that, usually first week of October, we start to see the foliage.

J Basser: 43:23

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Okay, well, that's just a couple weeks away yep it'll be here, before you know it. Yeah, okay, beth. You got anything else to add?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 43:39

I think whoever Kaylee takes on for her Hawaii case, I think they need a private C&P exam.

Kailey King, Esq: 43:47

So I'm just going to book that ticket at the same time. Really Well, that's great talk. You'll move to Hawaii, right?

J Basser: 44:00

I'll just come out and do a broadcast.

J Basser: 44:04

I think we're going to need to do a broadcast in Hawaii while we're there. I think it's only right that we just bring everybody.

J Basser: 44:14

Let's get the Helicoda sponsor that We'll have it made.

Kailey King, Esq: 44:21

The only other thing is.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 44:25

The only other thing I have to say is that I've really struggled with the accent over here. So I was doing disability exams and the other attorney comes in and goes Mr So-and-so is here and I was like who? And she said it and I was like who. She had to say it three times before I could understand who she was saying was here.

J Basser: 44:53

Yeah, we don't really pronounce our R's? Is it similar to the Boston?

J Basser: 44:57

accent. It's similar. I don't think it's as bad or, as I say, that I'm like as bad, but it's definitely like a polite version.

J Basser: 45:14

So the guy calls the Boston Fire Department and tells them that there's a bonfire.

Kailey King, Esq: 45:25

Actually needs somebody to burn his own fire.

J Basser: 45:30

I had a buddy in the Navy that was like that he was really. I mean, that was his main, you know his main forte. Everybody loved that accent. That's all we could do is keep him talking.

J Basser: 45:42

That's all he wanted to do was hear him talk. And usually when you drink it comes out a little more.

Kailey King, Esq: 45:50

Especially with Cardi 151.

J Basser: 45:54

Until you stand up. Right, that's good. I want you guys to do that. I mean I'd like to keep us posted on what you guys do, because I mean it's you see a lot of groups try something about what you guys are doing and a lot of issues.

J Basser: 46:14

you know, you see them kind of come in, six months later they're gone. You know you see so many different groups. You know we've had several on before the show that they would start something and we used to used to be one place, one thing called point man. You ever heard of point man?

J Basser: 46:31

No, I haven't heard of that one.

J Basser: 46:33

Okay, so Point man Ministry, I think they're still in existence, but the people change so often it's kind of hard. We've had several different divisions of it on there, you know, and they deal a lot with homelessness, they deal a lot with PTSD support and things like that. So you know it's pretty good and they help find jobs and things like that. But I think you guys got a little better.

J Basser: 46:53

I think you got better structure, I think you're organized a little better, and to me that's a gesture. I mean you know, if you've got good backing, good organization, good people, then you'll be successful.

J Basser: 47:07

Oh, absolutely yeah. If you're organized enough, you know and you're able to get the people with the, because that's what it is. You know, especially as a nonprofit. A lot of times we can't pay, you know these crazy salaries but you end up working with people who really, who aren't in it for the money. They're doing it because they really want to make a difference, they want to help people and it's nice to work with people like that.

J Basser: 47:31

We got a 501c3?.

J Basser: 47:34

We are yes.

J Basser: 47:36

Okay, 501c3.

J Basser: 47:40

That's a real good thing, Especially for my student loans.

J Basser: 47:48

Well, you get them paid off for them One day right. Hey, you know, you got to do what you got to do, right.

Kailey King, Esq: 47:56

Mm-hmm.

J Basser: 47:58

You got to do what you got to do. You know, and that's of course you know. Look at the education you did receive, look what you do. Yeah, the lady sitting next to you, you know, she did the same thing, you know. Well, she's a PA and she's pretty sharp. Now I tell you she knows the VA in and out.

Kailey King, Esq: 48:19

Yes, she does, she's a great resource to have.

J Basser: 48:25

Yeah, me too, whenever I can.

J Basser: 48:29

I'm going to pick her brain tomorrow morning actually. Are you now? Oh, absolutely.

J Basser: 48:36

Yeah, I think she can handle it.

J Basser: 48:40

But you guys met at a NOVA conference.

J Basser: 48:43

Yeah, we met at a NOVA conference a few years ago. We called my associate attorney at the time and I was at this conference and we saw Beth and we called her Becky with the good hair. She made a comment, and Becky with the good hair A lot of the advocates are older, so when there's a younger one they got to stick out. So we kind of we hit it off right away.

J Basser: 49:17

There's another story to that too, Go ahead.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 49:21

So when I was at the conference, there was another. He's actually a friend of mine now, but it was really awkward because he was making weird comments about the like how people can get into your computer and tap into the camera, and so he had like all this tape over top of his laptop and he just kept talking about it and it was like really awkward and they actually, kaylee and kelsey, both came up and started talking to me and saved me from that situation.

Kailey King, Esq: 50:00

So it's kind of comical as well.

J Basser: 50:03

You should have told them to stay away from new jersey that's where they all.

Kailey King, Esq: 50:07

That's where they all hang out, that's where it all happens yeah.

J Basser: 50:20

I have seen people like that. They have extreme paranoia uh, huh they're so afraid they're going to get hacked.

Kailey King, Esq: 50:29

Yep, there's not a lot of people that can do that. I know a few that can.

J Basser: 50:31

They're so afraid they're going to get hacked. Yep, there's not a lot of people that can do that, but I know a few that can.

J Basser: 50:36

I have a hard enough time getting my Adobe to work so I. Half the time. You know, if I'm not dealing with a tech issue, then it's a good day. I went in the wrong field. I mean I should have gone into tech. You could.

J Basser: 50:53

You'd have to go back to school and become a computer scientist, or you know.

J Basser: 50:57

Oh, I can't take out any more loans. I don't think they'll give them to me at this point. How long have you?

J Basser: 51:04

been practicing.

J Basser: 51:09

I've been practicing. It'll be 10 years in November 10 years in November.

J Basser: 51:16

Well, you don't need to go back to school. You know you've been doing it for 10 years.

J Basser: 51:21

Some would call me an expert, but I don't know. Stuff changes so much that I feel like every day I'm just on my toes. You have to. I mean, everything changes, especially doing the V8, you know, this stuff changes so much that I feel like every day.

J Basser: 51:29

I'm just on my toes. You have to. I mean everything changes, especially doing the VA. You know, because you're looking at the changes in the reg itself, changes in the M21. You've also had changes within the VA system itself, because every VA has got their own internal procedures.

Kailey King, Esq: 51:46

You know there should be some nationwide, but it's not.

J Basser: 51:48

Yeah, and so everything changes, of course. M-21, being an attorney, you know, in my opinion, that the M-21 is a. I'm a quality assurance specialist by trade, so I'm a document and data specialist. Now the Title 38 is the boss document. The M-21 is just a working copy that the VA uses to process claims. Do not take the M-21 into the big year of the court. They'll throw you out on your key strap.

J Basser: 52:19

Yeah, and they're not. A lot of times that a lot of people don't know this, but you know the M-21s are supposed to be just like you said. It's supposed to be like I want to say. Dumbed down version of the 38.

J Basser: 52:32

CFR but yeah, it's just, it's supposed to be a little more easier to digest and for people to just kind of kind of be as black and white as possible for people at the regional office. And a lot of people think they're in accordance with the 38 CFR and they're not. Well, some of them aren't. I know and I still think it's the M-21s that you have to submit a TDIU app in order to file for unemployability. They have to have that form and that's not what the law says. It's an implied claim. So the VA is literally saying, instructing people to not grant unless there's a form, and the law says the exact opposite. So when stuff like that happens, it's really frustrating because there's nothing. I mean you can't change the M-21.

J Basser: 53:28

But you can if a court panel changes it.

Kailey King, Esq: 53:31

Right, exactly, you have to have a pre-judge panel.

J Basser: 53:32

to change it, you have to have a precedent-setting opinion that changes. But you know that's true. That sucks. Well, listen, we've got about six minutes left. Give us your contact information. Guys, if you're listening out there, especially if you're from Hawaii, please contact these people, Especially if you're from Hawaii.

J Basser: 53:55

Yeah, so you can learn more about us by going to wwwosdriorg. We have all of our information right there. We have all of our resources right. There's a resources tab that has a drop down with housing assistance any type of assistance you might need in this area. If we can't help you, we know somebody who can, so it's definitely a great website to visit. My contact information is you go to the OSDRI website under legal assistance? I'm the first person listed right there, Kaylee Wildenhain, now Kaylee King. I got married two years ago, so still in the process of kind of changing everything over, which is a nightmare.

J Basser: 54:43

Okay, well, you shortened your last name anyway.

J Basser: 54:48

That's what I said. I needed a Smith or a King. It was, you know, one or the other. That's good.

J Basser: 55:00

That is awesome. I don't like writing long last names.

Kailey King, Esq: 55:05

Oh.

J Basser: 55:06

Bethany's ain't that long anyway. You know that's why you got a stamp right, but we do appreciate you coming in. We've got five minutes left. Anything else you guys want to touch on Ray? You guys have anything to add?

Ray Cobb: 55:24

No, it's a good show. I've picked up a lot. I've got to agree. I wish each state had something like this and you know it would definitely benefit the well. It would benefit everybody, because if that percentage rate of getting claims the first time, can you imagine how much that would free up the backlog of your appeals? I mean, you know it took me eight years to work through the appeal process to win my first client and, um, of course, yes, it was a little different, but uh, at the same time that it would have definitely been cleared up a little earlier. I think that's great.

J Basser: 56:09

Okay, I think that's great. Okay, let me tell you something. Mr Cobb there, my co-host. He is a secret veteran to be awarded his claims for agent orange exposure based on exposure inside the continent of the United States.

Kailey King, Esq: 56:25

Oh, wow.

Ray Cobb: 56:31

Yeah, everybody told me I'd never win it. But when you know what happened and how it happened and when and where you just got to hang in there and keep fighting, they may not believe it. But I was able to prove it in the long run.

J Basser: 57:03

So people like that, we got to feel these folks that are first. You know we got the one of our guys, I'm sure when he was first we got to win. His agent was claimed government in the United States and he's going to be a keynote speaker at Race Heaven Little Shindig down in November down in Winchester, tennessee. A lot of folks coming in to talk and that helps some of the vets down there it's going to be a pretty good little party.

Ray Cobb: 57:29

Yeah, you're welcome.

Kailey King, Esq: 57:30

I think Kaylee knows him too. Huh, I think Kaylee knows him too who.

J Basser: 57:37

Oh really.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 57:38

The guest speaker down in Tennessee.

J Basser: 57:39

She's, you know, mm-hmm James.

Bethanie Spangenberg: 57:43

Well, one of them no.

J Basser: 57:45

I was thinking of?

Bethanie Spangenberg: 57:47

Yeah, she knows, alex.

J Basser: 57:49

Okay, oh yeah, Alex, yep.

J Basser: 57:51

Alex has been a friend of mine for years, guys, and he knows there probably is no other agent or a non-attorney practitioner in the country that's got the handle on these high-level SMCs and that mandate the SMCs are really complicated. No when it comes in the high level, Like R1 and R2. I mean he's like Bo. Alex is like you know. Bo knows baseball, alex knows S&C.

J Basser: 58:21

That's your guy.

J Basser: 58:23

Yeah, he. Well, I have to say it. I mean, you know, I do refer people to him.

Kailey King, Esq: 58:29

You know, and I don't do it just because he's a free man.

J Basser: 58:31

I do it because I know what he can do you know, Mm-hmm. So we thank the Lord, alex, 30 seconds left. So, guys, thanks for coming on. Young lady, we appreciate you yeah.

Kailey King, Esq: 58:43

Thank you. Thank you for having me, thank you for coming on, for having me, thank you for coming on.

J Basser: 58:47

We'll get you back on again, maybe in the next year or so, and maybe we'll do a progress update and see how it's going. We can do that, ray. Thank you for coming on.

Ray Cobb: 58:58

I always enjoy it.

J Basser: 59:00

Thank you, folks. That being said, this is John on behalf of the Exposed Red Radio Show. Bethy Spangenberg, ray Cobb and Katie will be signing off for now. Radio show. Bethy Spangenberg, ray Cobb and Kaylee will be signing off for now. You have been listening to the Exposed Vet Podcast. Any opinions expressed on the show are the opinions of the guest speakers and not necessarily the opinions of Exposed Vet, exposedvetcom or Blind Talk Radio. Tune in next week for another episode of the Exposed Bet Podcast. Thanks for listening. Have a good show, kids.